Captain Zissou

September 04, 2012, 09:21:10 AM
Extremely well researched and well written article, Ennis.  You did a great job showing positive steps that Charlotte has taken and juxtaposed them against Jacksonville's missteps in those same areas.  Charlotte has made many good decisions in the past two decades that we need to make right now. 

I feel like Charlotte hasn't had that many people living downtown until very recently, but it has been vibrant for years.  The vibrancy brought the people, not the other way around.

Also, in one of Jax's downtown vision plans from the 60s we were toying with the idea of an overstreet mall with crosswalks connecting retail on the second floors of downtown buildings.  Charlotte took this idea much farther and built this mall.  This could have killed activity and vibrancy on the street, but somehow it did not.  The policies and actions by charlotte's downtown authorities to prevent or reverse the negative impact of this would be another good case study.

JFman00

September 04, 2012, 09:27:28 AM
Anatomy of a Boomtown: The Real Story Behind the Rise of Charlotte

Timely.

CHARLOTTE – Later this week, President Barack Obama will stand on the field of Bank of America Stadium here and deliver his acceptance speech that ends the Democratic National Convention. The stadium, located in downtown Charlotte, sits in the shadow of corporate skyscrapers like the Bank of America Corporate Center and the Duke Energy Center. Financial services employees can walk to the stadium and the bars around it from pristine apartment complexes located nearby. Others can get to it by a brand new light rail line that runs to the city’s southern suburbs.

Virtually none of these structures were here 20 years ago.

Residents and city officials view the DNC as a national coming out party. In the past three decades, Charlotte has undergone a boom unprecedented in modern American history. Until 1978, Charlotte – like many other mid-sized southern cities – was struggling to grow, reeling from the decline of the textile industry. But that year, Charlotte began its transformation into the second largest banking center in the United States. The city’s population has more than doubled, from 315,474 in 1980 to an estimated 751,087 in 2011. Seven Fortune 500 companies have headquarters in the city.

"You couldn’t buy pasta. You couldn’t buy a bagel in Charlotte."

But this dramatic evolution has not been without its pains. Charlotte’s infrastructure continues to be tested. Roads struggle to hold the tremendous volume of traffic that floods downtown each day. Gaping class divisions have formed along old racial divides: Growth has been concentrated in mainly white south Charlotte, while other parts of the city, which are primarily African-American, have been left behind. Crime has spiked and deep pockets of poverty have formed. Schools in many parts of the city under-perform: 11 schools in predominantly black neighborhoods were closed in 2010. And the financial crisis of 2008 decimated real estate values along with city tax revenue.

Charlotte’s story, however, is similar to that of many other American boomtowns. Like Phoenix, Las Vegas and other Sun Belt cities, Charlotte’s growth was powered by the economic prosperity of the 1990s. But it overextended itself in the first decade of the 21st Century, and lost tens of thousands of jobs during the Great Recession.

Now, Charlotte is a city in recovery, and remains one of the fastest growing cities in America. It’s a fascinating study of how cities cope in a seemingly endless age of crisis. And it’s facing an uncertain path forward.

Seeds of Change

Charlotte’s banking revolution has roots in an unlikely place: liquor laws. Prior to 1978, single drinks could not be served in North Carolina. People who wanted a glass of wine with dinner at a restaurant would have to bring their own bottle. Bars simply didn’t exist.

After state voters passed what became known as the “liquor by the drink” law, Charlotte’s hospitality industry began to grow. Around the same time, the first wave of northern immigrants arrived, according to Bob Morgan, president of the Charlotte Chamber of Commerce.

"In 1978, IBM moved 1,000 families from upstate New York. That was the first big influx," he says during an interview in his downtown office. Prior to that, "You couldn’t buy pasta. You couldn’t buy a bagel in Charlotte. The IBMers really began to change the community."

The Charlotte airport was also expanding. Piedmont Airlines chose Charlotte Douglas International Airport as its hub, connecting the city with major financial centers like New York and Chicago.

According to Gary Ritter, a history professor at Central Piedmont Community College, all of this, combined with favorable bank consolidation laws of the late 1970s, provided a prime opportunity for banks to grow along with the city. First Union Corporation and the North Carolina National Bank (NCNB) began aggressively acquiring smaller regional banks that formerly served farmers and the textile industry.

Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, First Union and NCNB undertook bullish acquisition strategies, taking control of banks across the southern states. When all of the southern banks were consolidated, they looked to acquire nationally. In 1991, after acquiring Atlanta-based C&S Sovran Corp., NCNB became NationsBank. Seven years later, it became Bank of America when it acquired San Francisco-based BankAmerica. Through mergers, First Union eventually became Wachovia.

Other sectors of the Charlotte economy also started to thrive. Duke Energy, based in Charlotte, grew to become the largest electric holding company in the country. US Airways, which acquired Piedmont in 1987, made Charlotte a hub, increasing the number of flights coming in and out of the metro area. By 2007, Charlotte Douglas was the fastest growing airport in the United States, adding 13 percent more passengers from the previous year.

But banking was – and still is – the biggest game in town. Charlotte is the second largest banking center in the country, behind only New York. And as the banks grew, thousands of workers and their families flocked to the city. There was only one problem: They had no place to live.

Boomtown

"When I was a boy I used to ride my horse out and herd cattle on our farm in what’s now south Charlotte," says city council member Andy Dulin. "When I was older, I used to do it on my motorcycle."

Most of the stores and restaurants that occupy the hundreds of glistening new strip malls are high-end chains.

Dulin is one of two Republicans on the city council (there are nine Democrats). His district occupies a large portion of south Charlotte and many of the city’s wealthiest neighborhoods. According to Dulin, the land where he used to herd cattle is now a housing development called Raintree Country Club.

Before 1980, nearly all of the land south of Charlotte’s city limits was farmland. Thanks to favorable zoning and the availability of space, much of it has now been converted to housing, retail, schools and other infrastructure necessities. The banks needed workers. The workers needed homes and places to shop.

As the suburbs grew, so did the city. North Carolina law allows cities to annex communities that are adjacent to city limits. So as new, high-paid workers moved to Charlotte and moved into new housing developments, the city absorbed new neighborhoods. This quickly increased Charlotte's tax base and allowed large infrastructure improvement projects to move forward. (Find a map of Charlotte's annexation history here [PDF]).

Everything in south Charlotte is very new and very clean, and signs of wealth are undeniable. But the area lacks the architectural and historic charm common in cities around the South. As you move away from the city center, homes become more generic. Many housing developments are comprised of seemingly identical McMansions and have names like Ballantyne Commons and Piper Glen. Most of the stores and restaurants that occupy the hundreds of glistening new strip malls are high-end chains.

Patsy Kinsey, a Charlotte native and city council member who represents an older area of Charlotte, proudly told me she didn’t come to south Charlotte and leaves her district only to get her Volvo fixed. "Our neighborhoods really strive to maintain their history, their feel," she says.

And south Charlotte’s convenience can be a bit off-putting: There were four Harris Teeter grocery stores within two miles of the house where I stayed while reporting this story. It’s also very easy to get lost: everything looks very similar.

But for nearly three decades, Charlotte’s growth seemed unstoppable. Interstate 485, the city’s beltway, connected south Charlotte with its bustling downtown, spurring more development. The National Basketball Association came, as did the National Football League. Banks kept adding jobs, bringing more and more people to the city.

Then the 2008 financial crisis hit, and everything started to fall apart.

This story is the first in a three-part series on the recent history of Charlotte. Stay tuned for parts two and three on Wednesday and Thursday.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/09/anatomy-boomtown-real-story-behind-rise-charlotte/3129/

David

September 04, 2012, 09:30:34 AM
I've been visiting Charlotte since I was a kid to see family up there. In the late 1980's it didn't seem much different than back home (Aside from having...hills) And then I visited there throughout the 90s and considered Charlotte to be Jacksonville's peer or "sister city" but towards 2000 and on, every time I've visited i'm surprised  by how far ahead of us they've pulled.

Good job Charlotte!

tufsu1

September 04, 2012, 09:48:21 AM
What happens?  Well among other things, they score a major convention that will likely pump hundred of millions of dollars into the local economy

jcjohnpaint

September 04, 2012, 09:53:26 AM
Great Article! 

fsquid

September 04, 2012, 10:04:15 AM

What happens?  Well among other things, they score a major convention that will likely pump hundred of millions of dollars into the local economy

Yea, my in-laws are here in JAX to get away from it.  They are renting their home out for 5k for the week.  Not bad.

vicupstate

September 04, 2012, 10:31:22 AM

I feel like Charlotte hasn't had that many people living downtown until very recently, but it has been vibrant for years.  The vibrancy brought the people, not the other way around.

While Charlotte has had new office buildings rising up in 'Uptown' for decades, anyone from there, or even visitors,  would tell you that until the 2000's, you could roll the sidewalks up after 5:00pm.  It was only when residents and nightlife starting coming (mostly after 2004)  that Downtown Charlotte was anything other than a urban-located surburban office park. 

And while the nightlife part helped, 75% of it at least was reaching a critical mass of full-time residents.

fsquid

September 04, 2012, 10:49:16 AM
I'd say that downtown residential took off in the mid-90s there.  I would hang out in condos "uptown" all the time from 98 until I moved here three years ago.   Difference between the two cities is that the Banks in Charlotte were the ones that led the charge to make their downtown vibrant so they could attract the best to their companies.  I don't know what company or companies are leading that charge here.

Captain Zissou

September 04, 2012, 10:56:43 AM

Quote

I feel like Charlotte hasn't had that many people living downtown until very recently, but it has been vibrant for years.  The vibrancy brought the people, not the other way around.

While Charlotte has had new office buildings rising up in 'Uptown' for decades, anyone from there, or even visitors,  would tell you that until the 2000's, you could roll the sidewalks up after 5:00pm.  It was only when residents and nightlife starting coming (mostly after 2004)  that Downtown Charlotte was anything other than a urban-located surburban office park. 
And while the nightlife part helped, 75% of it at least was reaching a critical mass of full-time residents.

I was there for a while in 2008 and it was already ten times more vibrant than DT Jax (not saying much, I know).  At that time, I don't think it had nearly as many residents as it does now.  However, at that time there were dozens of large residential projects under construction.  I am sure it is more vibrant now, but my belief is that they had vibrancy when residential population was at around 5,000-6,000. 

My hope is that someone can find actual population figures for the past few years to settle this one way or the other.  Anyone able to find DT Charlotte residential population from 2000 onward??

fsquid

September 04, 2012, 11:12:37 AM
In 2000, it was 4,953.  I've never seen yeraly updates, just estimates and future growth targets.

thelakelander

September 04, 2012, 11:35:32 AM
1997 - 3,600

2005 - 9,500

Civic leaders, led by the banking executives who built their empires in Charlotte , wanted it this way. Housing is a key to enlivening any downtown and has been part of Charlotte 's strategy for becoming a world-class city, mentioned in the same breath as Atlanta or Washington.

The strategy is working. Downtown -- or " uptown ," as locals call it -- has become a popular place to live. More than 9,500 people, roughly the population of Fuquay-Varina, reside in Charlotte 's 1.5-square-mile center city.

The influx has been rapid. In 1997, uptown Charlotte had 3,600 residents. So many live downtown now that Harris Teeter has opened a supermarket in Fourth Ward, four blocks from the city's tallest building, the 60-story Bank of America Corporate Center.

Source: Stradling, Richard. "People come home to uptown Charlotte - Part I." The (Raleigh, NC) News & Observer. February 27, 2005

2009 - 11,230

http://www.charlottecentercity.org/business/data/

According to this article, it's still hovering around 11,000.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/03/08/1295113/an-uptown-vision-delayed.html

Wacca Pilatka

September 04, 2012, 12:25:21 PM

I'd say that downtown residential took off in the mid-90s there.  I would hang out in condos "uptown" all the time from 98 until I moved here three years ago.   Difference between the two cities is that the Banks in Charlotte were the ones that led the charge to make their downtown vibrant so they could attract the best to their companies.  I don't know what company or companies are leading that charge here.

I often think how different the story of the two cities might have been had Barnett Bank - about the same size as the Charlotte banks until the 90s - been more aggressive in its expansion/acquisition strategies in the 80s, as the Charlotte banks were.

fsquid

September 04, 2012, 12:29:23 PM

Quote from: fsquid on September 04, 2012, 10:49:16 AM

I'd say that downtown residential took off in the mid-90s there.  I would hang out in condos "uptown" all the time from 98 until I moved here three years ago.   Difference between the two cities is that the Banks in Charlotte were the ones that led the charge to make their downtown vibrant so they could attract the best to their companies.  I don't know what company or companies are leading that charge here.

I often think how different the story of the two cities might have been had Barnett Bank - about the same size as the Charlotte banks until the 90s - been more aggressive in its expansion/acquisition strategies in the 80s, as the Charlotte banks were.

true and it could have been different for Charlotte if BOA would have been HQ in San Fran after the NationsBank - BankAmerica merger.

fieldafm

September 04, 2012, 02:10:38 PM

Barnett Bank - about the same size as the Charlotte banks until the 90s - been more aggressive in its expansion/acquisition strategies in the 80s, as the Charlotte banks were.

Barnett was pretty agressive and gobbled up an astonishing number of banks in their time.  They were a growth machine for the better part of a century.  However, their acquisition strategy focused mainly on their (very lucrative) Florida market instead of trying to become a super regional like First Union.

To have forrged ahead with a super regional model.. the acquistion costs were very high at a time when Barnett's own cost structures (particularly in technology) had grown substantially and pressure on future earnings were high due to increased costs and lower margins (something like 20% of earnings were coming from a credit subsidiary the bank acquired... they were ahead very early on the private label market which is so popular now).  The economies of scale they once enjoyed being Florida's largest bank had swung out of their favor and this put them at a disadvantage b/c they needed the retail side of the business to contribute more to the bottom line (hard to do when you don't have the same cost advantage).

Interestingly enough Wachovia, BofNY, Chase, SunTrust and Banc One all had been courting Barnett for quite some time.  NationsBank had the best offer (by like something in the realm of $6 a share higher which was 4 times book) and apparently Charles Rice had a strong personal relationship with then NationsBank CEO Hugh McColl(Ken Lewis, the embattled BofA ex-CEO was the lead on the deal). 

Nations basically stripped away all that made Barnett so popular to their customers which subsequently fueled the growth of several community banks and credit unions in Jacksonville.  It's ironic then that BankofAmerica is doing the same thing all over again almost two decades later. 

chipwich

September 04, 2012, 02:23:42 PM
Charlotte definitely appears to be pulling ahead to become another Atlanta.  Aside from Salt Lake City, I think their downtown is the cleanest urban setting I haven seen in our country.

They have are pulling in a good deal of companies from the research triangle and trying hard to attract new residents and shake off their small town roots.

I am really hoping Jacksonville can do the same.  We are a good city and have allot going for us, but like David said, I too have always considered Charlotte our "sister city" and judge our progress based on how Charlotte is doing (among other mid-sized cities).  At the moment, it looks like their playbook is filled with better strategies and more forward thinking leadership.

fsujax

September 04, 2012, 02:33:41 PM
it is interesting to read some of the comments in that story. Some actually arguing downtown Charlotte is still dead. I shudder to think what they would say about our downtown. Actually, they never even mention us. Nashville and Raleigh are mentioned by the posters.

Keith-N-Jax

September 04, 2012, 02:37:52 PM
Some really nice looking buildings.

peestandingup

September 04, 2012, 04:10:51 PM
I understand our downtown lacks in comparison, but I'm trying to figure out why people give Charlotte such props. I mean, yeah, I get it. It's got some places to eat downtown, some bars & a light rail, but it's a mini version of Atlanta, just without the history. The reason why it looks so clean is because it's practically a brand new city in many ways. Built on the banking industry & sprawl, two major players that's really screwed up the nation in the last couple decades (can anyone deny that?). A boom town that got built out with the automobile in mind instead of people, but trying to retrofit it to be the other way around (in some areas), all surrounded by ugly glass high rises & uninteresting chain crap.

Am I missing something? Is this the kind of stuff that other cities in the south are striving to be like now, or are we all just "OOO-ing" & "AHHH-ing" because the majority of southern cities stink so badly?? Honest questions.

I think Bradley's comment sums it up: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/09/anatomy-boomtown-real-story-behind-rise-charlotte/3129/#comment-639554467

Tacachale

September 04, 2012, 04:31:11 PM
^I don't know, maybe because they've started doing some things right and it's paying off? Why else would be talking about this?

vicupstate

September 04, 2012, 04:40:16 PM

I understand our downtown lacks in comparison, but I'm trying to figure out why people give Charlotte such props. I mean, yeah, I get it. It's got some places to eat downtown, some bars & a light rail, but it's a mini version of Atlanta, just without the history. The reason why it looks so clean is because it's practically a brand new city in many ways. Built on the banking industry & sprawl, two major players that's really screwed up the nation in the last couple decades (can anyone deny that?). A boom town that got built out with the automobile in mind instead of people, but trying to retrofit it to be the other way around (in some areas), all surrounded by ugly glass high rises & uninteresting chain crap.

Am I missing something? Is this the kind of stuff that other cities in the south are striving to be like now, or are we all just "OOO-ing" & "AHHH-ing" because the majority of southern cities stink so badly?? Honest questions.

I think Bradley's comment sums it up: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/09/anatomy-boomtown-real-story-behind-rise-charlotte/3129/#comment-639554467

Isn't Jacksonville the same thing, only WITHOUT the downtown eaterys/bars and light rail?   

Captain Zissou

September 04, 2012, 04:46:01 PM
Some cities start historic and stay historic (Savannah, Jax, Charleston), some start historic and add modern (Atl, Jax-ish, NoLa), some lack historic building stock but develop anyway (Charlotte).  Cities develop in different ways, but all have their place..  Charlotte has developed in rapid fashion over the past few decades and with a concentration on smart growth around the downtown core.  You can't blame them for lacking the historic building stock, but it is a disadvantage compared to Jax. 

JFman00

September 04, 2012, 04:54:10 PM

Some cities start historic and stay historic (Savannah, Jax, Charleston), some start historic and add modern (Atl, Jax-ish, NoLa), some lack historic building stock but develop anyway (Charlotte).  Cities develop in different ways, but all have their place..  Charlotte has developed in rapid fashion over the past few decades and with a concentration on smart growth around the downtown core.  You can't blame them for lacking the historic building stock, but it is a disadvantage compared to Jax.

I will say for NOLA, I am very impressed with how that city has developed since the storm. While I think the geographic challenges of the area have proved a somewhat effective barrier to sprawl, I am shocked at how quickly and (mostly) effectively areas like the Warehouse District, CBD and Uptown are developing even in the midst of the downturn and a famously problematic local government.

I think it's hopeful seeing cities like Charlotte (a former backwater) and New Orleans (one of the great cesspits of the US) revitalize their urban areas. If they can do it, so can Jax.

peestandingup

September 04, 2012, 05:06:33 PM

^I don't know, maybe because they've started doing some things right and it's paying off? Why else would be talking about this?

Paying off for who? They don't seem like they're interested in investing in people as much as they are "stuff", just plopping it down as fast as they can. And like I said, all built on two shaky, arguably unsustainable growth methods. A lot of that is really artificial, so "working" doesn't necessarily mean "smart" & is arguable.

Isn't Jacksonville the same thing, only WITHOUT the downtown eaterys/bars and light rail?

A lot of it. But I'd say our core neighborhoods are a hell of a lot more interesting & set up to work with each other better, on a pedestrian level. Although many of them aren't being utilized (or are being/have been torn apart) & are the product of city leaders who don't know WTF they're doing.

David

September 05, 2012, 01:16:31 AM

Am I missing something? Is this the kind of stuff that other cities in the south are striving to be like now, or are we all just "OOO-ing" & "AHHH-ing" because the majority of southern cities stink so badly?? Honest questions.

Pretty much. Who else do we really have to compare ourselves to? Atlanta's 4 times our size. Orlando/Tampa/Miami are a different breed in my opinion. More of what people think of when they think Florida.

I'd say the oohs and ahhhs come from them being ahead of us. Vibrant downtown, the legendary LIGHT RAIL and steady (urban) growth. In the mid 2000's it seemed our downtown was poised for explosive growth and since then there's been some improvements, but Charlotte's experiencing what I thought we'd have here by now. 

vicupstate

September 05, 2012, 05:26:51 AM
Atlanta and Charlotte had just as much history  and urban development as Jax or more, but they systematically and deliberately destroyed it.

This was done primarily in the 60's , 70's and '80's.  This was considered 'progress' back in those days, by government, and Chamber of Commerce types.

Finally, they have learned to keep what little they have left.  So much was gone that they had to build new, and fortunately they had the growth and determination to fulfill that option.

Jax is still following the pattern of tear it down and hope something new comes in to replace it.  The powers that be are only now realizing that is the wrong idea, and trying to change that trajectory.  Lets hope they succeed and before Bostwick and Annie Lytle, etc. fall to the wrecking ball too.

thelakelander

September 05, 2012, 06:53:46 AM
Charlotte was half the size as Jax before the 1960s, so its historic core is somewhat smaller. 

Charlotte during the 1950s.

http://specialcollections.uncc.edu/

Like Jax, they also ripped down a chunk of it during the 1970s.

Uptown Charlotte 1973

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=4986942&postcount=50

Charlotte skyline 1975

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=4985365&postcount=46


There's still historic fabric.  There's certainly successful adaptive reuse in the images below.  However, it tends to blend in, which says a lot about their maintenance and preservation of what's left.

fsquid

September 05, 2012, 09:29:57 AM
I believe there is also only one historical district in Charlotte where you have to go through architectural things like Springfield, Riverside, etc.    That is Dilworth.  In any other part of town, you can buy an old home and tear them down and build what you want.   Myers Park and Eastway are probably the wealthiest neighborhoods there and you can go down any street in those neighborhoods and see where someone has bought a house built around the 40s and 50s and is tearing it down to build new.

ben says

September 05, 2012, 09:41:03 AM

I understand our downtown lacks in comparison, but I'm trying to figure out why people give Charlotte such props. I mean, yeah, I get it. It's got some places to eat downtown, some bars & a light rail, but it's a mini version of Atlanta, just without the history. The reason why it looks so clean is because it's practically a brand new city in many ways. Built on the banking industry & sprawl, two major players that's really screwed up the nation in the last couple decades (can anyone deny that?). A boom town that got built out with the automobile in mind instead of people, but trying to retrofit it to be the other way around (in some areas), all surrounded by ugly glass high rises & uninteresting chain crap.

Am I missing something? Is this the kind of stuff that other cities in the south are striving to be like now, or are we all just "OOO-ing" & "AHHH-ing" because the majority of southern cities stink so badly?? Honest questions.

I think Bradley's comment sums it up: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/09/anatomy-boomtown-real-story-behind-rise-charlotte/3129/#comment-639554467

I'm going to go out on a limb here and take the unpopular position that you've expressed....I don't "get" Charlotte either. Been many times, never been impressed. There history is nil, their historic stock is smaller than Jax, and the newness gives me the sterile vibe. It feels like a modern prop-up town, like in Blazing Saddles....look behind everything and you'll find fresh paint and fresh paint only.

I'll take ATL, Jax, Savannah, Charleston, Nola, Nashville ANYDAY to Charlotte.

thelakelander

September 05, 2012, 09:47:09 AM
I spend less time on focusing on the landscape and more time focusing on how things have been implemented to get where they are today.  Think whatever you want to think about the place and its character, but can you imagine if Charlotte's leaders had Jacksonville's assets and location at their disposal?

ben says

September 05, 2012, 10:09:02 AM
^ I completely agree...but it seems to me that we're focusing on leadership and implementation. I was merely expressing an opinion as to the city in general. (I felt that's what peestandingup was doing, as well.)

Quote from: Tacachale on September 04, 2012, 04:31:11 PM

^I don't know, maybe because they've started doing some things right and it's paying off? Why else would be talking about this?

Paying off for who? They don't seem like they're interested in investing in people as much as they are "stuff", just plopping it down as fast as they can. And like I said, all built on two shaky, arguably unsustainable growth methods. A lot of that is really artificial, so "working" doesn't necessarily mean "smart" & is arguable.

Quote from: vicupstate on September 04, 2012, 04:40:16 PM

Isn't Jacksonville the same thing, only WITHOUT the downtown eaterys/bars and light rail?

A lot of it. But I'd say our core neighborhoods are a hell of a lot more interesting & set up to work with each other better, on a pedestrian level. Although many of them aren't being utilized (or are being/have been torn apart) & are the product of city leaders who don't know WTF they're doing.

^That's what I was getting at.

vicupstate

September 05, 2012, 10:38:11 AM
I totally 'get' the Charlotte is sterile and plastic impression.  I felt that way in the 90's and it didn't impress me at all then.  But, there have been a lot of changes since then. 

First, there was a renewal of several outlying areas that have enhanced it greatly. South End, Dilworth, Wilmore on the Southern sides beyond Uptown.  To the North, NoDA is a funky, gritty, artsy mill village that is very much like what you might find in Nashville or Atlanta.

Also, an area West of Uptown, is evolving into an urban neighborhood, with a nice blend of old and new. The name escapes me at the moment.       

As for the core itself, it lacks the diversity and ecelectic nature that older building stock provides.  There no replacing that, IMO, which is a shame. That provides a very cautionary tale for JAX to learn from.   

That said, you do have to admire that Charlotte is forward-looking and always trying to push itself to the next level. There is not now, nor has ther ever been a dirth of leadership or willingness exert it. 

They moved from being a sleepy southern city no different than Greensboro, NC or Columbia, SC into the solid second-tier American city.     

fsquid

September 05, 2012, 10:55:21 AM
I'd say most that live in Charlotte don't care too much about historical stock anyways.  Can't say it came up in conversation ever in my 12 years there.  People want places to play, enjoy the climate, and be entertained.

krazeeboi

September 05, 2012, 02:17:52 PM
As was stated, Charlotte indeed destroyed too much of its historic urban fabric within the core over the decades, which is lamentable--even though it didn't have as much as Jax or Atlanta to begin with. This is a major reason why a crucial piece of the puzzle in downtown revitalization--retail, specifically street-level retail--hasn't quite taken off yet, as historic storefronts are more conducive to that. However, many of the textile mills which turned Charlotte into a booming manufacturing center post-Reconstruction are still standing; they are just located outside of the urban core. And while it's a relatively small area, there's a concentration of historic Victorian homes in Fourth Ward within Uptown that's worth mentioning:











Also, as was stated, Charlotte is really a city of neighborhoods. For the folks who complain about the sterility of Uptown, I encourage them to check out the historic nabes Southend, Dilworth, NoDa, Elizabeth, Plaza-Midwood, Wilmore, Wesley Heights, etc. where the true soul of the city is to be found. A couple of these neighborhoods also have their own commercial areas with restaurants, retail, nightlife, etc.

The light rail line has spurred a lot of TOD, which is significant. A second wave seems to have occurred within the past year or so, as more rental properties have come on the market in response to the depressed national housing market which is a little more exacerbated in Charlotte, but not as bad as other cities (e.g., Atlanta). It's a great start to a city largely characterized by suburban development that wants to shift to a more urban, transit-oriented paradigm.

As I've stated before, I find it incredible what Charlotte has accomplished with so little to work with compared to a city like Jacksonville. Jacksonville is structurally more urban (grid system), more historic, has a coastal location relatively shielded from hurricanes, has a downtown located along a grand river, has a milder climate, etc.  The difference simply comes down to leadership. Charlotte's revitalization in more recent decades can largely be attributed to the business leader Hugh McColl, who, in concert with orchestrating major bank mergers and acquisitions that helped turn Charlotte into the banking mecca it is today, also helped spearhead urban development in Uptown to give the city a more robust metropolitan image that would in turn help attract other businesses. Of course the approach taken is not without its faults, but the results can't be argued with. Once that revitalization took hold, civic leaders sustained the momentum with continued investment in infrastructure, housing, amenities, parks, etc. Jax might not have the business leadership in place, but there's no reason it can't take a page from the playbook of cities noted for their successful downtown revitalizations like Charleston, Chattanooga, and Greenville, or those in the process of continued revitalization like Knoxville and Columbia, which began with civic leadership.

Jax needs real leaders, period, point blank.

simms3

September 05, 2012, 02:28:48 PM
Charlotte is really a POPULAR place for young college grads and professionals to move to.  Having visited only a couple of times and preferring extremely large overcrowded cities on the coasts to boomtown sunbelt cities, I still don't think I would be kicking and screaming if I had to move there.  It's a networking city with A TON of young professionals and everyone seems intent on meeting new people and making new friends, and unlike Jacksonville there are really desirable urban environments for living.  Uptown is not surprisingly very appealing.

And while everyone seems hell bent on discussing the uncertainty with the banks there, out of the NINE F500 companies based in the area, only 1 is a bank.  Its economy seems pretty diversified to me and there are plenty of financial services, legal services, engineering services and real estate services firms there.

Sometimes the city does seem like it is trying too hard, what with public art and sculptures on every corner and near every building entrance, and there isn't much old at all, nor is there a grid outside of Uptown, but the city is very attractive and has a ton of big city amenities, a decent big city feel, and people there have big city mentalities and more substantial travel/educational backgrounds than people in Jacksonville.  The sterility that comes with those attributes above is worth the trade off for me.  Jacksonville has "history" relatively speaking, but look at the historic districts.  They are all shoddy looking and you can't build anything in them.  Jacksonville may have more "warehouses", but they are all rotting and forgotten whereas Charlotte's 5 or so are part of a really cool area served by light rail.  Jacksonville may have more old buildings downtown and a grid, but it's all deserted!  What good is all that history if you can't make anything of it anyway?

And do I even have to mention there is FOOT traffic?  Very rarely in the Sunbelt, especially in the South with these new cities that have developed almost entirely post-streetcar do you see foot traffic and a walking vibe/faster pace of life.  In Charlotte you have inklings of that.

fsquid

September 05, 2012, 02:41:32 PM

Charlotte is really a POPULAR place for young college grads and professionals to move to. 

one only has to be uptown on a college football Saturday to see everyone going to the bars to watch their alma mater.  Tons of people under the age of 30.

Tacachale

September 05, 2012, 03:27:25 PM
^Absolutely. One huge advantage Charlotte has is North Carolina's higher education system, which is leagues ahead of Florida's and attracts some of the best and brightest in the country (and the world). They didn't get where they are in a vacuum.

krazeeboi

September 05, 2012, 05:24:30 PM

^Absolutely. One huge advantage Charlotte has is North Carolina's higher education system, which is leagues ahead of Florida's and attracts some of the best and brightest in the country (and the world). They didn't get where they are in a vacuum.

You also have Charlotte's proximity to SC's two largest universities, USC and Clemson. You're just as apt to see alums from those schools packing out the bars in the fall as alums of Duke and UNC, sometimes even more so.

fsquid

September 05, 2012, 05:41:07 PM

Quote from: Tacachale on September 05, 2012, 03:27:25 PM

^Absolutely. One huge advantage Charlotte has is North Carolina's higher education system, which is leagues ahead of Florida's and attracts some of the best and brightest in the country (and the world). They didn't get where they are in a vacuum.

You also have Charlotte's proximity to SC's two largest universities, USC and Clemson. You're just as apt to see alums from those schools packing out the bars in the fall as alums of Duke and UNC, sometimes even more so.

certainly more so as no one claims Duke football.  You pretty much see alumns from every ACC and SEC school packing the uptown bars.  Hell you even see the Southern Conference alums there watching their teams (App State, Furman, Wofford, etc.).

Ocklawaha

September 05, 2012, 11:15:42 PM

It's a networking city with A TON of young professionals and everyone seems intent on meeting new people and making new friends, and unlike Jacksonville there are really desirable urban environments for living.  Uptown is not surprisingly very appealing.

And do I even have to mention there is FOOT traffic?  Very rarely in the Sunbelt, especially in the South with these new cities that have developed almost entirely post-streetcar do you see foot traffic and a walking vibe/faster pace of life.  In Charlotte you have inklings of that.

While I no longer fit the profile as 'young,' I disagree that Jacksonville doesn't have desirable urban environments for living. I believe San Marco, Durkeeville, Riverside-Avondale (centered on 5 Points, and Park and King), parts of Springfield, Murray Hill, Saint Nicholas, and Fairfax... all have desirable places to live and a pretty cool urban vibe. True, it might not be as mature as some other cities, but it's quite a Bohemian, sometimes Indie Environment.

Your second paragraph hits the crux of the matter in reviving these old places with new uses and purpose... streetcar. By simply returning to what made these neighborhoods and suburbs happen, we'd refuel the stalled motors of our organic growth. Streetcars built Charlotte (even more then Jax).

Interurbans too! The Piedmont & Northern Railway was created in the 1914 consolidation of two physically separated 2-year-old Duke Power electric interurbans, Piedmont Traction Co. in North Carolina and Greenville, Spartanburg & Anderson in South Carolina. P&N replaced electric operation with diesel 1951-1958, and was acquired by Seaboard Coast Line (of Jacksonville, TODAY'S CSX), on July 1, 1969.

Served by both the large Interurban Cars of the P&N as well as the municipal system known as 'Southern Public Utilities' and later as 'Duke Power'. Charlotte developed streetcar suburbs such as Dilworth, Queens Road West, Elizabeth, Western Heights, Wilmore, Rosemont, Wesley Heights, Biddleville and Washington Heights (which Charlotte claims as the first black neighborhood in the south developed as a streetcar community... Jacksonville actually had them beat as we not only had black neighborhoods come in as streetcar suburbs, we had an entire development company, streetcar system AND neighborhood prior to 1906.)

Can you imagine how the old Ortega Line of the Jacksonville Traction Company would look today had we not been so ready to listen to the 'General Motors' sales pitch? Of course who knows the ends that the 'highway boys' would have gone to to wreck our trolley system, in Phoenix they burned out the cars in arson attacks by night leaving the city no other recourse but to use the buses readily provided by the arsonists themselves.