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Looking towards downtown Jacksonville, shortly after taking off from Craig Field on a trip to Orlando Apopka Airport. Regency Square Mall dominates the right side of this image.
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On this particular day, the results of our road dominated transportation system can be seen in the air
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Adam W
November 08, 2012, 03:51:46 AMGreat pics, Ennis. It must've been amazing having the opportunity to see the city and the State from that perspective.
Re the Tamaya development: has permission been granted for them to not build the roadway, or is the decision pending?
Out of curiosity, do you know when they renamed the airport to "Jacksonville Executive at Craig Airport?"
Noone
November 08, 2012, 05:02:34 AMNice pics. Happen to see any manatees from the air?
Charles Hunter
November 08, 2012, 06:34:56 AMI think the airport renaming took place within the last year. The Aviation Authority wanted to name it "Jacksonville Executive Airport", without any mention of "Craig." They added "at Craig Airport" back after lots of community opposition to snubbing him.
thelakelander
November 08, 2012, 07:07:30 AMIt was a pretty nice perspective. On that particular day, it was kind of hazy but some of the most interesting scenery is came paralleling the St. Johns River to Central Florida.
Tick Island and Lake Woodruff near DeLeon Springs.
Bear Island in Crescent Lake and Crescent City.
Not at 2,500 and 6,500 feet high. However, did see a few power plants. Here's the coal plant near Palatka.
Charles Hunter
November 08, 2012, 07:14:39 AMNice pics.
mmmm "Tick Island" - sounds like a great place to ... avoid
Adam W
November 08, 2012, 07:43:37 AMThanks. It's an awkward-sounding name. I grew near there and probably will always think of it as Craig Airport, so I guess I can appreciate local opposition to the removal of the name.
Lunican
November 08, 2012, 09:04:02 AMAnyone still wondering if sprawl is affordable?
Ocklawaha
November 08, 2012, 11:32:28 AMActually 1,000 people is incorrect for Nocatee, it should read 1,000 families.
Non-RedNeck Westsider
November 08, 2012, 11:58:18 AMLet's keep the families out of Nocatee....
The well maintained, hardly used, curvy 2 laned highways make for a nice racetrack for both sportbikes and sportscars.
I don't think I'd feel safe at 140mph if I though Doris and her SoccerMom SUV might pull out at any moment.
thelakelander
November 08, 2012, 11:58:38 AMFor further clarification on Nocatee's 2010 census population was 1,200 residents living on 23.48 square miles. At the time, according to Nocatee's website, they had around 500 families. With 1,000 families that would put them in the range of 2,400 to 3,000 residents or so.
http://www.nocatee.com/news/nocatee-news/2010/08/19/st-johns-adds-more-school-buses-for-growing-nocatee.aspx
Overall, it has a long term buildout for a population of 30,000 over 23.48 square miles of land area. That should eventually give it a buildout density somewhere around 1,278 residents per square mile. Of interesting note, Lunican's Lakeview neighborhood in Chicago, has 94,368 residents living within a 3.16 square mile area. That's a population density of 29,863 residents per square mile.
cline
November 08, 2012, 01:47:36 PMMan they're really killin' it now with 3k people. I guess Nocatee Parkway and the overpasses PARC built are really paying off.
fsquid
November 08, 2012, 01:59:07 PMhelps me get to the beach quicker.
tufsu1
November 08, 2012, 10:28:27 PMwell ok then...guess the exppressway is worth it
spuwho
November 08, 2012, 11:38:55 PMSome responses of the view of Southside from up high....
While I know you were contrasting the cost of the BJP as comparing some kind of transit options.....
- Atlantic & Kernan was an intersection of death for many years...it was #1 in Jax for accidents prior to the bridge. This intersection had to be remediated, no transit option was going to fix the issues.
- Beach & Kernan bridge...IMHO, this bridge has some very fascinating engineering going on. It was designed to have pitch, bow and also was built as a turn. It has no center piece holding it up. It was also built in a hurry because FDOT was in the middle of rehabbing US90 and JTA/FDOT didn't want to have to tear up Beach again when the bridge got built. JTA took some licks for that decision in their audit of BJP.
- Also remember that the Atlantic/Kernan and the Beach/Kernan updates facilitate improved hurricane evacuations. Now with 4 major E/W routes with the draw bridges removed. No transit option can replace that in the event of natural disaster.
Lake, if you look a little closer at Kernan, they did build out a very pedestrian friendly bicycle/running paved trail from Atlantic all the way to UNF. Driving down it shows it is used very heavily especially between Beach and JTB by the UNF students. It is easily overlooked. The only miss is that the bridge wasn't built to include it, you have run the gauntlet of lights at Beach to get across.
JTA purposely added 2 left turn bays on Kernan at Alden for the future Tamaya 4 lane connector to Hodges. They shouldn't let them off the hook, that connector would have been a small but useful reliever of local traffic using Beach to reach Hodges.
Your pictures also clearly show where the BJP ran out of money. Kernan goes from 6 lanes going north to only 2 lanes between Atlantic and Wonderwood. This causes extreme backups in the AM/PM rush as there are several schools (Landmark, Sabal Palm & Waterleaf) in that 2 lane stretch.
Another miss on the Kernan BJP southside expansion, they purposely left out a bridged school crossing in support of Kernan Trail/Middle School. After 2 years of 60+ mph, they placed 15MPH warnings now which defeats the purpose of a 6 lane Kernan to begin with. Finally, the landscaping JTA required has been left to its own survival. After a month of watering, they stopped and now one by one the trees they planted are dying.
Where should future transit go to support the Southside?
With so many places that could support permanent transit options (meaning non-bus)
- FSCJ
-UNF
-SJTC
- Beaches
-Deerwood Park
-Avenues District
- Future Cruise Terminal
I am impressed that you actually checked the density levels in the Baymeadows area. Keep it up, I am certain you will find that not all developments in the Southside are not all that country clubbish in density. Some are, many aren't.
Of final note, there are no McDonalds, Burger Kings or Chik Fil A's in the Kernan Southside corridor. But yes, Mr. Sleiman does own 3 corners at Atlantic and 1 at Beach.
thelakelander
November 09, 2012, 07:05:22 AMIt's not in our long term plans but when I look at the Southside, JTB stands out as the most logical core for future fixed transit. Although is not geographically centered, it has the type of destinations already existing that supports mass transit. In essence, it reminds me of San Diego's Mission Valley corridor that is served by the Trolley's (LRT) Green Line.
Looking at the JTB corridor, heading from west to east, you have a nice chain of major destinations and you penetrate Jacksonville's Edge City.
Southpoint, St. Lukes, multifamily housing, Deerwood Park, Southside Public Library, SJTC, UNF, Mayo Clinic, etc. with Jax Beach being an ending destination. However, the major problem here, and anywhere else between DT and the Beaches, is the cost. You're going to have to spend between $1-$2 billion building something.
My point wasn't to say improvements to the Kernan corridor were not needed. My point was to highlight how much these improvements tend to cost on an average because we do these types of improvements all over the city. Sometimes we push off mass transit talk based on an idea that its too expensive and will never pay for itself. However, we turn a blind eye when it comes to more expensive roadway construction which really never pays for itself.
blfair
November 09, 2012, 08:56:11 AMIt is awkward. I think the only place you see it called that is in JAA marketing materials. They think calling Craig 'Jacksonville Executive' (more often JAXEX, even better!) and Herlong 'Herlong Recreational' will somehow make all of the Sunday pilots leave Craig I guess?
After the 'rebranding', some folks decided to call Craig on the radio, and rather than saying 'Craig tower, piper n1234', they said 'Jacksonville executive airport at Craig field tower, piper n1234'. The controllers were not amused and informed that it was still just 'Craig'!
spuwho
November 09, 2012, 08:05:44 PMLake,
No issues here as I knew what you were contrasting in your write up.
Good transit planning has benefits that should last from 100-150 years, While roads have some similar benefits, the fact they have to be replaced every 30-40 years can actually make them more expensive in the long term.
A 1 Billion USD investment for a Jax to Beach fixed transit system seems like a lot up front, but measured over its useful life compared to modern highways and bridges would be an interesting study. The measurement of Per Person BTU's consumed annually over the amount of depreciated capital of each method should provide a ballpark feel for the efficiency and cost effectiveness.
ronchamblin
November 09, 2012, 08:18:06 PMInteresting pic's Lake. I wish the smog or haze wasn't obscuring the details. I wonder if there is such a thing as a haze filter. Seems like I remember on the old types of cameras, when you could put a filter on to eliminate some kinds of colors etc. I'm not a camera person. Anybody have any ideas about a filter that might work on a digital?
thelakelander
November 09, 2012, 09:26:57 PMI'm going to go back up on a clearer day.
Adam W
November 10, 2012, 03:20:31 AMI've always heard that UV filters helped with reducing haze. I have UV filters on all my lenses b/c they're cheap and they protect the lens. Not sure if it would make a huge difference, but it might help.
blfair
November 10, 2012, 09:32:58 AMLooked hazy, but also like these were taken through plexiglass, which on a plane really seems to make everything dull and distorted. My experience is you can't make the result look better, just different.
I'm going to work on flying from the right seat so I can have someone take decent photos, as both planes I usually fly only have opening windows on the left.
Overstreet
November 10, 2012, 11:55:24 AMOne thing about JTB is that it is a corridor that people actually go to things on. There are business parks all along it's length from I-95 to the ICW. Then there is the beach. A lot of people move through the corridor. But Y'all would be providing transportation for the suburbanites that didn't connect to anything much less downtown.
thelakelander
November 10, 2012, 12:24:27 PMOr you would have a DT to Beach corridor, which would blow away most starter LRT corridors in this country.