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A Vision For The Shipyards

Under the direction of Professor Arpad Daniel Ronaszegi, a series of conceptual ideas for the redevelopment of the shipyard area were recently developed by the Savannah College of Art and Design (SCAD) graduate level Architecture Urban Design Studio.

Published November 18, 2010 in Development      63 Comments    Open printer friendly version of this article Print Article


feature

About This Design Project

This design work is the culmination of a semester of work by six teams of two (twelve students), with each team proposing a distinct solution. This work was presented as a gallery style exhibit in City Hall on November 17, 2010.  


Design Project 1

This concept includes removing the Hart Bridge Expressway, extending the skyway through the site and greenspace along Hogans Creek.








Design Project 2

This projects includes a pedestrian foot bridge to connect the Shipyards with the Southbank.











Design Project 3

This project maximizes greenspace along the waterfront and Hogans Creek.









Design Project 4

This project removes the Hart Bridge Expressway, the Duval County Jail, JSO and extends the urban street grid into the Shipyards site.











Design Project 5

This project is designed to be 100% sustainable.








Design Project 6

This project preserves existing building stock and converts a portion of the Hart Bridge Expressway into an elevated green space.










Boards and models will be available for public view during the holidays at the Ed Ball Building (214 North Hogan Street).

Article by Ennis Davis







63 Comments

tufsu1

November 18, 2010, 07:47:49 AM
Great studies/concepts!

Some of the ideas (greenspace, tearing down the expressway, moving the JSO/Jail) have been discussed here.....these ideas should be explored further in coming years, and over time maybe some come to fruition.

JeffreyS

November 18, 2010, 07:53:52 AM
why does everyone want to get rid of the Hart bridge.

thelakelander

November 18, 2010, 07:58:24 AM
My guess would be to create additional opportunities for development, greenspace and connectivity.

Keith-N-Jax

November 18, 2010, 08:09:02 AM
Highly unlikely the Hart Bridge expressway will be removed. Just work around it. Moving the Jail is a good idea for sure.

thelakelander

November 18, 2010, 08:17:21 AM
At some point it will be.  Its been around since the 1960s and eventually we're going to have to replace it or take it down. Considering the I-95 Overland Bridge replacement project is pushing $200 million and the Hart Bridge ramps carry little traffic, I can't imagine anyone wanting to drop that type of dime on a new structure.

vicupstate

November 18, 2010, 08:48:35 AM
Design 3 is my favorite.  Primarily because it seems BOTH visionary/creative AND realistic.  I like the large amount of greenspace while still leaving sufficient room for major development. 

acme54321

November 18, 2010, 08:54:03 AM
I don't think the bridge itself should/would be removed, but the feeder ramps up to it could definately go.  They see little traffic and really chop up the area between downtowa nd the stadium.

Overstreet

November 18, 2010, 09:28:29 AM
At some point it will be.  Its been around since the 1960s and eventually we're going to have to replace it or take it down. Considering the I-95 Overland Bridge replacement project is pushing $200 million and the Hart Bridge ramps carry little traffic, I can't imagine anyone wanting to drop that type of dime on a new structure.

Well not exactly since the 60's......the jail and police building were built around 1989. It replaced the previous building and the Jail annex across the street next to the old courthouse.

duvaldude08

November 18, 2010, 09:31:36 AM
Design 3 is my favorite.  Primarily because it seems BOTH visionary/creative AND realistic.  I like the large amount of greenspace while still leaving sufficient room for major development. 

Yeah those feeder ramps are not heavily traveled at all. The only ramp that should stay is the one going towards MLK expressway.

Overstreet

November 18, 2010, 09:38:37 AM
Interesting thinking out of the box. The practical solutions will likely be different. Where the money comes from takes a bit longer to dream up.

The tower with the right angle "flag" like structure at the top will be some interesting 120mph wind rating problems for the structural engineer. The low "chevron" like bridge across the river might increase walk ability but it kills navigable waterways and the water taxi.

I-10east

November 18, 2010, 09:45:44 AM
IMO Project 4 is a disaster. Why move all of those important municipal buildings esp. JSO? What's the purpose of tearing down existing infastructure (Hart Bridge ramp). There's plenty of land in Jax's DT to grab instead of a relatively short stretch of land underneath a high clearance four lane feeder artery.

ChriswUfGator

November 18, 2010, 09:49:25 AM
The pedestrian walkway across the river is a neat concept, but a no-go. We have a lot of commercial and private boat traffic. That's why the bridges have to be 200' high or drawbridges. The cost involved would make a pedestrian ramp seem unfeasible. But then again we just spent $400mm on a county courthouse, so who knows.

SMoody84

November 18, 2010, 09:56:14 AM
That pedestrian bridge made me laugh.

How about a zipline across the river?  Now that would be cool.

acme54321

November 18, 2010, 10:22:11 AM
Maybe the pedestrian bridge was meant to be something like the one in London that rotates up to allow for boats to pass under?

vicupstate

November 18, 2010, 10:41:54 AM
At some point it will be.  Its been around since the 1960s and eventually we're going to have to replace it or take it down. Considering the I-95 Overland Bridge replacement project is pushing $200 million and the Hart Bridge ramps carry little traffic, I can't imagine anyone wanting to drop that type of dime on a new structure.

Well not exactly since the 60's......the jail and police building were built around 1989. It replaced the previous building and the Jail annex across the street next to the old courthouse.

I think he was referring to the ramps. 

They do need to go.  They need to be just long enough to do the elevation job needed.  Bypassing the sports district totally by ramp is a terrible idea. IMO.   

thelakelander

November 18, 2010, 11:10:34 AM
At some point it will be.  Its been around since the 1960s and eventually we're going to have to replace it or take it down. Considering the I-95 Overland Bridge replacement project is pushing $200 million and the Hart Bridge ramps carry little traffic, I can't imagine anyone wanting to drop that type of dime on a new structure.

Well not exactly since the 60's......the jail and police building were built around 1989. It replaced the previous building and the Jail annex across the street next to the old courthouse.

I was talking about the Hart Bridge ramps.

Coolyfett

November 18, 2010, 11:17:30 AM
I agree with Jeff...man these ideas kinda suck...looking at the pics I cant not tell what they are trying to do. The footbridge is a terrible idea...did they forget about boats?!? Removing builds cost money. The first idea might be the best, but every thing is lil league & totally unsexy. This the best they got? stupid parks & trees?

hard sigh

Coolyfett

November 18, 2010, 11:28:36 AM
IMO Project 4 is a disaster. Why move all of those important municipal buildings esp. JSO? What's the purpose of tearing down existing infastructure (Hart Bridge ramp). There's plenty of land in Jax's DT to grab instead of a relatively short stretch of land underneath a high clearance four lane feeder artery.

These concepts are stupid! Why are people praising this mess? I hate them. Do something better already. They took adventage of the overpass in in Riverside, yet the overpass over Shipyards needs to come down for greenspace? lol stop it. Where is the appeal? You think Betty sue from Mandarin is coming to the Shipyard for greenspace??  I dont know why this school made these boring ass ideas. They are a waste of time!

tufsu1

November 18, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
wow cooly...really?

mbstout

November 18, 2010, 11:38:11 AM
I like Project 3 the best as well.  But i think that demolishing the jail and moving the Police HQ elsewhere and renovating that building (which isn't that bad!) plus an addition into a new convention center (maybe by the Danish architect Bjarke Ingles??) would be FANTASTIC!  Of course, opening up Hogan's Creek and demolishing the Hart feeder ramps are obvious choices to make.

SMoody84

November 18, 2010, 11:51:02 AM
When I first read this, I was wondering why they would remove the Hart Bridge Expressway.. but then I thought about it, and no one really uses them (and they're old!).  Jax would be better suited to remove it than replace it.  I'd rather drive down bay street/everbank field drive anyways!

Love the idea of running the skyway through there, and continuing on to the stadium complex too.

fsujax

November 18, 2010, 11:55:38 AM
I am really curious to see what people's thoughts are on adding more park space Downtown. I guess for me, it needs to be active park space. The greenspace along the river is nice, but how much is too much? I really think the site needs to become a draw, not sure park space alone will do it.

stephendare

November 18, 2010, 11:58:51 AM
I am really curious to see what people's thoughts are on adding more park space Downtown. I guess for me, it needs to be active park space. The greenspace along the river is nice, but how much is too much? I really think the site needs to become a draw, not sure park space alone will do it.
+1 FSU Jax.

You couldnt possibly be more accurate.  Active use is one of the key missing ingredients in Downtown.  Personally Id like to see more skateboards, basketball and soccer spaces being utilized.  Anything the promots visual imprinting.

Captain Zissou

November 18, 2010, 12:25:55 PM
I like a combination of the first 3.  I'd love to connect Hogan's Creek to the river more and add green space around it.  I don't think the riverfront needs to have that much park space, as long as it is accessible by the public.  

As for the pedestrian bridge, I think it's a great idea, but unfeasible due to costs.  Based on the shape, I think the students might have been thinking of a bridge designed by Wilkinson Eyre that opens up like an eye.  The span rotates so that the center  point (where the bridge turns in the image) is elevated high above the river.  This would be awesome and a signature piece for downtown, but way too expensive.

Captain Zissou

November 18, 2010, 12:28:14 PM


The bridge I was referring to is the Gateshead Millennium bridge.

Bike Jax

November 18, 2010, 12:38:50 PM
It would be nice to see a portion of the Hart Bridge somehow opened to bicycle/ped access. That would save some serious miles off a trip from Arlington to downtown.

I-10east

November 18, 2010, 01:05:29 PM
The bridge I was referring to is the Gateshead Millennium bridge.

Okay, so I understand that type of bridge now. The boats will be able to pass underneath. With that being said, IMO it's still a waste of time and money. We have nearby pedestrian/vehicular bridges already, Main Street, and Acosta. I can't think of a more literal "bridge to nowhere" than that concept. That's why we have water taxis to cross the water.

Sonic101

November 18, 2010, 02:02:19 PM
A cross between 3 and 5 would look neat

SMoody84

November 18, 2010, 02:25:07 PM


The bridge I was referring to is the Gateshead Millennium bridge.

Now that would be cool (along with my zip-line idea!!).

Could you imagine how pissed some people would be if Jax built a bridge like this?? haha.

KuroiKetsunoHana

November 18, 2010, 03:30:02 PM
it looks pretty, but i prefer functionality to appearance when it comes to bridges.  crazy, i know.

JeffreyS

November 18, 2010, 03:33:14 PM
In the meantime I would love to see the space made available to one of the flag football leagues in the area.  A couple of them already draw from a large area everyone drives to them. The leagues are grown men a few hundred every weekend and they just require flat grassy fields. Regular activity you know.

Captain Zissou

November 18, 2010, 03:56:24 PM
it looks pretty, but i prefer functionality to appearance when it comes to bridges.  crazy, i know.

It's a pedestrian footbridge that rotates upwards to allow boats to pass underneath.  I don't see how much more functional you could get with a bridge....??  A hot dog cart??

fieldafm

November 18, 2010, 04:48:37 PM
Overall, I was really impressed.

The presentation started off with the comment 'When investors look at a community they look at the quality of the airport and the quality of downtown'

Integrating the 680' public pier wasnt a common theme, but that was to be expected as Im quite sure the students weren't aware of this promise given to the citizens of Jacksonville. 

Another note of interest was the common theme about tearing down the Hart Expressway overpass.  In fact one of the groups(I believe Defines the Edges) had a page in their process book that really brings it home with the quote 'If a major road is making a city less livable and vital place than it would otherwise be, in many cases everyone benefits when politicians have the vision and guts to tear it down'

Check out their absolutely correct reasoning for tearing down the expressway:




Another group(believe Redifining a City) hit on a theme repeated in some previous articles on this site, defining the Shipyards site with the maritime uses that once made the site such a bustling place of activity.


But I was particularly fascinated by one group's complete intuitive understanding of the challenges and opportunities facing our urban core, and they highlighted excellent solutions in their concept.  That was the work of Amie Calisti and John Takots: Everyday Urban Experience.  Downtown Jacksonville's problems are marvelously complex in their simplicity.  As Jim Bailey once quoted on here, we need to hit more base hits.  I think that sums up the DT opportunity quite well.  The fixes are quite easy and they all revert back to the  connectivity and street level interaction of a once proud urban core.  Its fascinatingly complex that people fail to take these simple steps to create a better downtown and instead focus on swinging for the fences when the count is 3-0 and the throw is to the outside.

Their concept had specific uses for a varied level of potential users.  So, the woman who works downtown and lives in the suburbs would want to make this space a destination... as would the suburban family... as would the young urban professional, and so on.  This hits on Stephen's point quite well... ensuring it is an active space ensures it will become a destination.  My concept, the Bay Street Pier Park specifically addresses this issue... which is why as Noone branded it, the BSPP would become Jacksonvillle's front porch to the river.

The EUE concept had a public and private marina(another common theme amongst the groups) water taxi access(absolutely needed IMO), active green space, public restrooms(something incorporated in my concept), but it also integrated Hogans Creek.  Amie commented that she had spoken with a gentleman who walks the Klutho parks daily, but that in its present condition it is not attractive for people to use.  Their concept included cleaning up the green beltway that is Hogans Creek and also noted that opening up the shorelines naturally and extending the greenway would let the creek cleanse itself as a proper ecosystem should.  They had both bike rentals and kayak rentals incorporated in this concept(as we have been advocating for) so that the public can experience and connect with our American Heritage River in a deeply personal way. 

The pedestrian bridge you guys are talking about actually links the site together, and is essentially a better/wider/more thoughtful expansion of the existing Hogans Creek footbridge at the mouth of the creek.  It does not impede boat traffic on the river in any way shape or form.  Kayaks are what Hogans can sustain, not recreational power boat traffic.

Another simplisticly brilliant part of the plan was integrating the A Philip Randolph Commercial Corridor.  This is something we have discussed on this site in detail in the past.  The city has sunk money into upgrading the physcial facilities of this once proud commercial corridor, however it suffers from desolation b/c it doesnt address the issue of connectivity.  For the Landmar site to work, it has to connect and bridge the gap b/w the districts it border.

No grand $200k studies were needed, just intuitive minds that saw simple solutions to simple problems.  I hope when they graduate, both Amie and John chose to find gainful employment in the Planning Department in the City of Jacksonville.

fieldafm

November 18, 2010, 05:01:15 PM
Here is a more detailed look at their plan:




























KuroiKetsunoHana

November 18, 2010, 06:31:33 PM
It's a pedestrian footbridge that rotates upwards to allow boats to pass underneath.  I don't see how much more functional you could get with a bridge....??  A hot dog cart??

looked to me like it stays in the up position.

Ocklawaha

November 18, 2010, 07:00:41 PM


Scrap the bridge and anchor these terminals with Skyway-bus-streetcar-pedestrian and bikeways.

OCKLAWAHA

wsansewjs

November 18, 2010, 07:20:04 PM


Scrap the bridge and anchor these terminals with Skyway-bus-streetcar-pedestrian and bikeways.

OCKLAWAHA


Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!


-Josh

Charles Hunter

November 18, 2010, 07:56:01 PM
The bridge in question is the chevron-shaped one in Design #2 across the St. Johns (to JEA site?), not the one across Hogan's Creek.

Didn't a developer - when all those developments that never happened were announced -  propose gondolas, like in Ock's picture, from the Southbank/JEA site to the Stadium area?

Do any of the proposals discuss what to do with Maxwell House? Especially the ones that propose getting rid of JSO and the Jail?  Any that suggest getting rid of Maxwell House are non-starters.

thelakelander

November 18, 2010, 07:59:32 PM
Altough it appears some of the plant's property was converted into green space, I believe all felt that Maxwell House was an unique historic asset and that facility became a part of their overall plans.

Btw, I see in the graphics Fieldafm posted, one project included a coffee museum just east of the main plant.

Noone

November 18, 2010, 08:26:49 PM




Integrating the 680' public pier wasn't a common theme, but that was to be expected as I'm quite sure the students weren't aware of this promise given to the citizens of Jacksonville.

  My concept, the Bay Street Pier Park specifically addresses this issue... which is why as Noone branded it, the BSPP would become Jacksonville's front porch to the river.

]

Field,

They all did a good job.

As I approached each piece of work I mentioned to the students that I was interested in your approach to the waterfront points like Hogans Creek and the pier. And your absolutely right that they were unaware of the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. How would it have changed the presentations?

So what made the presentation exciting for me was when they did incorporate the pier in the design. Some teams did.

Maria and Josh are getting big pats on the back from me. At the end of their presentation Josh mentioned the use of containers for economic opportunity. What an observation. Maria mentioned the port and I couldn't agree more. So using a container would make the statement that we are a port city. Can't wait to share this with Gov. elect Scott again. The commissioners of FIND will appreciate it to.

I like the Bay Street Pier Park name and it highlights Bay St. and the future potential to recapture that Super Bowl week and just make the street a hub of vibrancy.

As to Jacksonville's front porch to the river Southern style. Hat goes off to North Miami for that one.

Everyone needs to remember that its an election cycle. JCCI is in the middle of a new study. Some of these concepts will happen.  

What needs to happen first.

Keep score.

Ocklawaha

November 18, 2010, 09:56:02 PM
Altough it appears some of the plant's property was converted into green space, I believe all felt that Maxwell House was an unique historic asset and that facility became a part of their overall plans.

Just one more reason to close it and blow it up! It's the Jacksonville way...






Seriously though, there WAS a plan to hang a "aerial rope cable car", "ropeway," or "aerial tram" across the river from the peninsula building area to the stadium. As I Recall an Australian company worked on some pretty advanced planning for the purpose of a demonstration project.

As I have some experience with this mode let me get everyone up to speed.

NUMBER ONE... in my first photo (red cable tram crossing a river)... IT'S NOT A GONDOLA!

Gondola's: "aerial lift," "gondola lift," or "cable car," are a type of aerial cable system where the cable moves in a continuous loop and the cars simply hang on the moving cable. Ski resorts and amusement parks use the gondola system to move large masses of people at a very low cost, likewise around the world cities are discovering them too.

A  "aerial rope cable tram", or more properly in the USA "aerial tram" is like a light rail vehicle that moves along a suspended track made of a cable or typically cables - 2, usually with an operator, though it can be automated.

When I left Medellin, Colombia we had one system up and running with 2 terminals and several intermediate stations, one under construction, and 3 more planned. The system was inexpensive enough (about 16 million per mile, straight up the Andes) that it operates fare-free and the old railroader must tell you it is as impressive as hell itself. Beautiful, and even better when the economies are realized.




MEDELLIN METROCABLE SYSTEM SPECIFICATIONS:

Metrocable - line K: Andalusia, Popular, Santo Domingo Savio

Type of System
Uncoupleable monocable gondola

Length of the route
2072 ms

Elevation
399 ms

Speed of the system
5 m/second

Number of support pilings
20

Energy
Electrical (zero emissions)

Diameter of the cable and weight
51 mm compact soul 42 tons

Installed capacity (passengers/hour)
3,000

Width of the route
5.7 ms

Constructed area total
10.200 m2

Total urban area
9.000 m2

Number of cars
93 with capacity for 10 users c/u

Distance between the cabins
60 ms

Frequency
12 sec.

Engineering specifications
Cabins are mfd. by Diamond corp., of aluminum, with internal illumination and interior communications. Powered by solar cells affixed to the roof of each cabin.

Perhaps we should do a little MJ study article on "Metrocable Jacksonville?"


OCKLAWAHA

fieldafm

November 19, 2010, 09:26:45 PM
If anyone is interested in checking these out sometime next week, let me know and I'll buy you a cup of joe at Chamblins or Desert Rider(bonus points if its on taco day)... all I ask in return is to write and call your councilperson about the importance of this property, specifically public access to the pier and the revitilization and activation of the Hogans Creek/Klutho Green Beltway

Overstreet

November 20, 2010, 08:06:06 AM
Pedestrian bridge that rotates up for boat access.  How long do you suppose it would take to get the pedestrians off the bridge to let a boat pass?

Demo the jail........JSO..........Maxwell House....? What's next?  Remove Doro Fixtures? Maybe the dreamers are getting carried away with it. We completed with New Jersey to keep Maxwell House and the jobs. Doro is a third generation millwork and fixture company operating out of some old buildings. In fact the shop with the main carpenter shop is a former hotel from 1910. Remove the ramps for the Hart? Best way in /out of sports area.

Ideas and dreaming out of the "box” are fine, but somewhere the practical side will come into the equation and modify or mediate them.

thelakelander

November 20, 2010, 09:40:14 AM
Everyone should keep in mind that this was a college design project by a school located in another state, with two students/idea for FREE.  If I've learned anything from being apart of this site, its that Jacksonville's complexities can't be rounded up and completely understood in less than a semester.  Given that, I think the work all of these groups did is pretty impressive.  If I were taking things from this exercise, I'd mix many of the general themes these projects highlighted (riverfront accessibility, extending the street grid, stronger connectivity on both of the site's ends, sustainability, mixed uses, taking advantage of Hogans Creek, etc. with the realities (Maxwell House, Hart Bridge ramps, etc.) of the surrounding context to create a strong realistic vision.

BridgeTroll

November 20, 2010, 01:31:05 PM
Quote
Everyone should keep in mind that this was a college design project by a school located in another state, with two students/idea for FREE.  If I've learned anything from being apart of this site, its that Jacksonville's complexities can't be rounded up and completely understood in less than a semester.  Given that, I think the work all of these groups did is pretty impressive.

I agree Lake... :)

TheProfessor

November 20, 2010, 01:33:02 PM
The city needs to focus on the downtown core primarily at this point.

Singejoufflue

November 20, 2010, 03:12:33 PM
I like the statement "Jacksonville's front porch to the river."  MMMM. That's good branding. I'd like to get a better look at #three.

kells904

November 20, 2010, 06:20:19 PM
Pedestrian bridge that rotates up for boat access.  How long do you suppose it would take to get the pedestrians off the bridge to let a boat pass?

Demo the jail........JSO..........Maxwell House....? What's next?  Remove Doro Fixtures? Maybe the dreamers are getting carried away with it. We completed with New Jersey to keep Maxwell House and the jobs. Doro is a third generation millwork and fixture company operating out of some old buildings. In fact the shop with the main carpenter shop is a former hotel from 1910. Remove the ramps for the Hart? Best way in /out of sports area.

Ideas and dreaming out of the "box” are fine, but somewhere the practical side will come into the equation and modify or mediate them.


I thought the quick access out of the sports complex was part of the problem.  Surely there's a way to utilize the bridge without driving on top of a whole neighborhood, which has kinda been cut off from the rest of downtown?  With its destruction, wouldn't it offer the chance to avoid the inevitable multimillion-dollar rebuild (I think Lake pointed that out in a recent article...) as well as offer a chance to reconnect that near-dead space underneath it?   

Noone

November 21, 2010, 06:36:57 AM
Quote
Everyone should keep in mind that this was a college design project by a school located in another state, with two students/idea for FREE.  If I've learned anything from being apart of this site, its that Jacksonville's complexities can't be rounded up and completely understood in less than a semester.  Given that, I think the work all of these groups did is pretty impressive.

I agree Lake... :)

I also agree.

CS Foltz

November 21, 2010, 07:30:49 AM
I agree also! Most of the elements incorperate what is available and thinkng like this is encourages me to think, there might be hope yet! This administration has no hope in hell, but the next one can start out with something in mind and an end goal to work towards for all of our benifit!

billy

November 21, 2010, 12:29:11 PM
Does anyone have any idea where things stand regarding any possible reconfiguration
of the expressway at Union Street/ Hogans Creek ?

tufsu1

November 21, 2010, 08:10:42 PM
Does anyone have any idea where things stand regarding any possible reconfiguration
of the expressway at Union Street/ Hogans Creek ?

there are no plans....but I think it will be discussed when it comes time to rehabilitate the expressway

stephendare

November 22, 2010, 02:12:13 PM
Meh.

After looking over these plans, Im struck with two opposing impressions.

The first of course, is how wonderful the overall work is from a design and architecture perspective.  This was a brilliantly put together series of ideas, and the execution is professional and flawless.  It is great to see the care and thought that went into the projects, and especially that some thought was put into an environmentally sustainable ethos of design.  The students are to be congratulated for their hard work and their great presentation.

The second thought is that these are perfect examples of how an architecture driven planning and design environment has almost totally destroyed the urban landscape of the US, and why it does not work to have Architects or architectural boards driving development.

There is almost no real thought going into the economic sustainability of any of these projects, and that is a huge component that is missing from the field of urban design.  The removal of the traffic destroying flyover is a good first step, but its about the only one that is a glaring 'must do'.

The projects are basically a fill in the blank approach to usage, with not kinaesthetic approach to how economic and pedestrian activity are actually related to each other.

Take for example this diagram (the best in my opinion):



Look how little attention is given to the development of any commercial activity whatsoever.  What little commercial activity that would be possible within the carefully defined parameters of this diagram would not be sufficient to create the economic or financial activity necessary to justify or support this district.

Almost all of the use is ultimately passive.  Planned entertainment venues are only open during certain hours, and therefore can only contribute vibrancy in the form of foot traffic, pedestrian activity and out of district visitation for limited amounts of time.  Even so, the entertainment facilities arent properly adjacent to or intermingled with the commercial areas in order to create synergy or cross use.

The most glaring ommission from all of these plans is the total lack of economic energy captured from the River itself.  Because of the possibilities of trade and commerce, every square foot of the River should be utilized to either compliment or capitalize on maritime economics.  We have thousands of acres upon which to design suburban style development, and very little space on which to develop water transport compatible components to our local economy.

While there is at least a nod to the River in terms of the ever present marinas, this usage is at best a passive use, wherein the main economic activity is slip rental and refueling.  While the boats being stored on the riverfront does present additional possibililities of generating walking traffic.  In the above designed presentation, the retail and commercial designations are not immediately connective to the boats themselves.  One has to go through a layer of residential and office use which tend to have a quelling effect.  In the project above, perhaps the best idea is the suggestion of a vertical farm, but if you look at the placement on the display, there are no provisions made for water transport of any of the products from said farm.  And if there arent any provisions for water transport, why put it on the river?

Finally, one of the main things missing from these projects is the concept of overlapping layers, which is where the maximum amount of vibrancy is generated.  Despite the designations of 'mixed use' lmost all of these designs cuts the use of the land as though it were being rendered onto a two dimensional map instead of a three dimensional reality.

Retail and manufacture on the bottom floors, with residential and office commercial on all the upper floors is designed to create maximum vibrancy with minimum infrastructural investment.  I would like to see these projects in the future to be designed not by carving up a map and designating uses in a two dimensional way, but instead see the overlapping layers and usages planned for.

And in the future, please stop treating the giant economic engine of the river as merely a scenic backdrop whose only use is painting a pretty picture to look out.  The land is too freaking valuable for that use to be squandered on these pedestrian projects straight out of a suburban design book.

Noone

December 07, 2010, 06:38:17 AM
Meh.

 

The most glaring ommission from all of these plans is the total lack of economic energy captured from the River itself.  Because of the possibilities of trade and commerce, every square foot of the River should be utilized to either compliment or capitalize on maritime economics.  We have thousands of acres upon which to design suburban style development, and very little space on which to develop water transport compatible components to our local economy.



Bingo!

This issue needs to be in the forefront of this upcoming city council and Mayoral campaign.

Anyone going to a Vision for Jacksonville Friday?

St. Johns River Alliance meeting Monday in Palatka?

The Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier should be a part of the dialogue for all these meetings.

Noone

December 07, 2010, 09:16:01 AM
Vision for Jacksonville

Got the date wrong. Its Dec.8 Wednesday

Contact Carolyn Clark
carolynclark@uli.org
904-486-8256

thelakelander

December 07, 2010, 09:29:21 AM
I'll be there.

coredumped

September 15, 2011, 10:18:47 PM
Has anything been decided about the land here?

thelakelander

September 15, 2011, 10:22:24 PM
No.

Noone

September 15, 2011, 11:44:02 PM
There is pending legislation before the city council 2011-560 that is Shipyards/Landmar and I believe that an amendment should be attached at Rules or Finance that should seek some of the $23,500,000 that we are about to say bye, bye to. Anybody care?

Keep the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier separate from the yet created Downtown Authority. The pier is in Dist.4 and councilman Redman can Make It Happen. FIND, the governor, our Regional Partners,  the other 66 counties in Florida are watching.

Be concerned.

fieldafm

September 16, 2011, 08:19:38 AM
Overall, I was really impressed.

The presentation started off with the comment 'When investors look at a community they look at the quality of the airport and the quality of downtown'

Integrating the 680' public pier wasnt a common theme, but that was to be expected as Im quite sure the students weren't aware of this promise given to the citizens of Jacksonville. 

Another note of interest was the common theme about tearing down the Hart Expressway overpass.  In fact one of the groups(I believe Defines the Edges) had a page in their process book that really brings it home with the quote 'If a major road is making a city less livable and vital place than it would otherwise be, in many cases everyone benefits when politicians have the vision and guts to tear it down'

Check out their absolutely correct reasoning for tearing down the expressway:




Another group(believe Redifining a City) hit on a theme repeated in some previous articles on this site, defining the Shipyards site with the maritime uses that once made the site such a bustling place of activity.


But I was particularly fascinated by one group's complete intuitive understanding of the challenges and opportunities facing our urban core, and they highlighted excellent solutions in their concept.  That was the work of Amie Calisti and John Takots: Everyday Urban Experience.  Downtown Jacksonville's problems are marvelously complex in their simplicity.  As Jim Bailey once quoted on here, we need to hit more base hits.  I think that sums up the DT opportunity quite well.  The fixes are quite easy and they all revert back to the  connectivity and street level interaction of a once proud urban core.  Its fascinatingly complex that people fail to take these simple steps to create a better downtown and instead focus on swinging for the fences when the count is 3-0 and the throw is to the outside.

Their concept had specific uses for a varied level of potential users.  So, the woman who works downtown and lives in the suburbs would want to make this space a destination... as would the suburban family... as would the young urban professional, and so on.  This hits on Stephen's point quite well... ensuring it is an active space ensures it will become a destination.  My concept, the Bay Street Pier Park specifically addresses this issue... which is why as Noone branded it, the BSPP would become Jacksonvillle's front porch to the river.

The EUE concept had a public and private marina(another common theme amongst the groups) water taxi access(absolutely needed IMO), active green space, public restrooms(something incorporated in my concept), but it also integrated Hogans Creek.  Amie commented that she had spoken with a gentleman who walks the Klutho parks daily, but that in its present condition it is not attractive for people to use.  Their concept included cleaning up the green beltway that is Hogans Creek and also noted that opening up the shorelines naturally and extending the greenway would let the creek cleanse itself as a proper ecosystem should.  They had both bike rentals and kayak rentals incorporated in this concept(as we have been advocating for) so that the public can experience and connect with our American Heritage River in a deeply personal way. 

The pedestrian bridge you guys are talking about actually links the site together, and is essentially a better/wider/more thoughtful expansion of the existing Hogans Creek footbridge at the mouth of the creek.  It does not impede boat traffic on the river in any way shape or form.  Kayaks are what Hogans can sustain, not recreational power boat traffic.

Another simplisticly brilliant part of the plan was integrating the A Philip Randolph Commercial Corridor.  This is something we have discussed on this site in detail in the past.  The city has sunk money into upgrading the physcial facilities of this once proud commercial corridor, however it suffers from desolation b/c it doesnt address the issue of connectivity.  For the Landmar site to work, it has to connect and bridge the gap b/w the districts it border.

No grand $200k studies were needed, just intuitive minds that saw simple solutions to simple problems.  I hope when they graduate, both Amie and John chose to find gainful employment in the Planning Department in the City of Jacksonville.

fieldafm

September 16, 2011, 08:21:29 AM
Here is a more detailed look at their plan:































Tomorrow, you can discuss the vision of the Hogans Creek Greenway with myself and others while cleaning up this hidden urban jewel as part of the International Coastal Cleanup.  You even get a free tshirt  :).  9AM to 11PM behind the Jacksonville Historical Society(directly behind the Veterans Memorial Arena).

tufsu1

September 16, 2011, 08:27:37 AM
you mean 9am to 11am right?

fieldafm

September 16, 2011, 08:31:06 AM
you mean 9am to 11am right?

Thank you tufsu... I have a habit of typing too fast and not re-reading before I post.

9AM to 11AM.
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