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thelakelander
May 13, 2010, 08:15:54 AMAdditional information about the FEC/Amtrak rail project:
St. Auggie
May 13, 2010, 08:35:59 AMSorry if I am just being lazy, but will there ever be a station up at JIA? This seems to make a lot of sense, so I am guessing no.
thelakelander
May 13, 2010, 08:41:15 AMYes, there will be a commuter rail station nearby. So it will be possible for St. Augustine residents to catch a train in that city and take it up to JIA.
JeffreyS
May 13, 2010, 08:53:02 AMIf Amtrak stations were put in Orange Park, N.A.S and the Avenues could a seperate commuter rail system also use the facilities at those stops?
St. Auggie
May 13, 2010, 08:56:59 AMThanks, that looks like a good start!
thelakelander
May 13, 2010, 08:57:35 AM^Yes. This happens right now with St. Florida's Tri-Rail system.
jandar
May 13, 2010, 09:47:12 AMI would place it at Doctors Inlet. Plenty of land to use, and more people would use it. Those that would drive to Wells or Kingsley would just continue on to work from that point. They already fought enough traffic to get that far.
Doctor_K
May 13, 2010, 09:52:29 AMThere are no existing rails there, if I'm not mistaken. I think the study makes use of rails already in place, no?
Can someone with more knowledge confirm that?
fsujax
May 13, 2010, 09:55:03 AMAny service relating to commuter rail or Amtrak Inter-City service takes advantage of exisiting track. There is a potential commuter rail station cited in Clay near Doctors Inlet. it's noted on the map above.
jandar
May 13, 2010, 09:56:02 AMThe CSX line passes across 220 east of College Dr/West of Fleming Island (and north down US17 eventually)
The FEC line passes across the street (basically) from the Avenues.
jandar
May 13, 2010, 09:57:59 AMAnd that is the first one I would build. Cleared land, just need to buy it. Nothing to demolish, room for parking, etc.
Orange Park there is no room, gotta tear something down. Lakeside, you will have a fight with homeowners about the location (and only a few limited strips of grass.)
JeffreyS
May 13, 2010, 10:03:33 AMjandar
May 13, 2010, 10:06:10 AMUploaded with ImageShack.us
Still trying to find room at Lakeside, nowhere to be found.
Orange Park @ Kingsley, there is a spic of land, but there are some shanty houses that will need to be torn down.
Doctor_K
May 13, 2010, 10:10:06 AMfsujax
May 13, 2010, 10:15:46 AMClay County has actually been proactive in their planning for future transit needs. Good for them. I do not think the station for commuter rail identified in Lakeside was intended to be a large park and ride station, maybe more like a small neighborhood station.
thelakelander
May 13, 2010, 10:18:26 AMThe site (the one in jandar's image) is already owned by Clay County. That's where the proposed multimodal station will be located.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-03-22/story/jta-get-93-million-federal-stimulus-money
jandar
May 13, 2010, 10:23:27 AMWow, missed that story. Thanks Lake.
Surprisingly Clay is serious about this.
Captain Zissou
May 13, 2010, 10:23:51 AMThis is great news. A step towards creating a regional network of transit. Now jax will be able to develop as a city should, with hubs of activity and development connected by mass transit. No more sprawl!!
jbroadglide
May 13, 2010, 10:59:16 AMHi Metro Jax
I am flattered that you chose to use my YouTube video of the Amtrak/FEC train crossing the St Johns downtown, but could I at least get credit for it?
BTW I am as excited about anyone at the prospect of riding the train from Jax to Miami without having to go through West wayoutback Florida to get there.
John Buckley
thelakelander
May 13, 2010, 11:38:27 AMSorry about that. I thought I had included a link to the video. I'll add it to the article.
jbroadglide
May 13, 2010, 11:41:15 AMBTW my buddies and I were going to try and pace it down US1 from Bayard to St Augustine. But as you can see from the last few seconds of the video, they were already moving at close to 60mph and by the time we got onto US1 they were long gone! I was told later by some friends who rode the train that they even hit the max speed of 79 mph in a few spots.
Mattius92
May 13, 2010, 12:12:23 PMDuuh, I live in Clay and I really want commuter rail, and we really need it. Scratch the outer beltway and just invest in commuter rail. I am sure it will be of much more use then the outer beltway, and it should be a lot less then $1.8 billion.
The St. Augustine Station is in a very strategic position near historical downtown, like the idea.
JIA needs to have an commuter rail connection. A connection to that from Downtown would be a vital network.
Mattius92
May 13, 2010, 01:07:32 PMI am thinking about creating a website called, Jax4rail.org, it will be a website promoting the use of rail in Jacksonville, for freight, state-wide and city-wide passenger rail.
However, there might already be a site promoting this...
TheProfessor
May 13, 2010, 01:21:08 PMThis is exciting. I wonder what the timetable is in building the transportation center around the Union Station?
jandar
May 13, 2010, 01:21:32 PMMattius,
The one chink in the armor about Commuter Rail is that it first relies on Downtown Jax being the only hub.
Yes, this makes logical sense, and would work for most of Jacksonville.
There is however, a huge portion of Clay that commutes to the Southside.
You will not get buy in from that crowd until there is a direct route between points in Clay and the Southside of Jax without having to go through downtown first.
If you want to tie commuter rail in with the Amtrak/FEC line, it still wouldn't attract that many people from Clay to downtown Jax. Most would drive to St Augustine and use that facility.
I say build the outer beltway, a good portion is already done/started. And yes, it does help relieve congestion (although a bridge in Fleming Island is a much better idea than GCS)
Add a commuter line down the middle of it, this will attract more ridership from Clay than the route through downtown would.
Trust me, this is what helped slap JTA in the face over BRT. You cannot expect people to take longer to commute by bus or rail than they do by car. My commute is 45 minutes each morning, it would take over an hour using Commuter Rail. Not only do I save 1/2 hour each day, I also have my car with me. Is it worth the extra 30 minutes a day, and loss of car use if needed for work, and being stuck to a schedule for a few dollars a day savings in gas?
You have to hit home on time/cost/speed.
stephendare
May 13, 2010, 01:26:42 PMjandar has the minority opinion on this issue mattius.
You should come to our meetings at three layers on tuesday night if you want to meet the rail guys!
JeffreyS
May 13, 2010, 01:30:42 PMJandar one of the main benefits of fixed rail is delopment starts to conform to it. People start to live and work with commuting in mind. So employers and deveopers start taking advantage of the transit lines.
Doctor_K
May 13, 2010, 01:30:57 PMI don't know - he has a point about the OP-Southside commuters.
And, as the vast majority of people in this area are mass-transit uninformed, I believe jandar actually puts forth a majority question/concern.
The question is, since Downtown will be the hub, you will have commuter lines running primarily north-south, and the only viable option for those commuters is and will be for the foreseeable future the Buckman Bridge, how *will* you entice this demographic to use it?
EDIT: JeffreyS posted before I was done. So basically, you'll entice these people over time?
fsujax
May 13, 2010, 01:37:19 PMThe argument of downtown not being the largest employment hub is often used. Two things it is still the most dense employment center in the region, served by existing transit to circulate people once off the train and secondly, people need to realize that commuter rail may actually entice some employers back to Downtown! all trains lead to Downtown.....all aboard!
Captain Zissou
May 13, 2010, 01:39:07 PMPerhaps you would entice the OP-Southside commuters to move.... If a regional transit network develops, it will be desirable to live anywhere near the FEC line, or around the Roosevelt line if they work downtown. Maybe poorly planned areas of town will become less desirable and die off, allowing for denser development near transit lines.
Mattius92
May 13, 2010, 01:41:31 PMIn real reality poeple in Fleming Island and south will probably benefit the least from commuter rail, because the distance from Fleming Island to DT is rather large and there is a lot of stops along the way. The only I think this could be solved is having an express train from Fleming to DT in the mornings and afternoon.
Let me do this mathematically, its around 25 miles from DT to Fleming Island, now if an express train doing 50-60 MPH straight to DT it would take less then 45 minutes. Now I am not sure how fast commuters can reach, but if they were to do 75MPH on an express route they could get to DT in around 30 min.
People North of Fleming Island but south of NAS JAX will still have around 30-45 min to get to DT, because they aren't on a express train.
This could be the same for the St. Aug to DT route, an Express Train from St. Aug to DT will reduce the amount of time.
And hell I dont mind walking, I have lived in the so called country for 8 years I walk 1.6 miles just to get the mail and back, and I am moving to the most transit friendly city in the US once I graduate College. See ya Jacksonville you fail me.
Mattius92
May 13, 2010, 01:44:16 PMWanna fix OP-Southside Commuters, build an rail line down the middle of the Buckman, guess what its fixed!
thelakelander
May 13, 2010, 01:45:39 PMWhen people think about rail, people forget the fact that rail is only one form of an integrated mass transit system. Even in cities like DC, NYC and Chicago, bus service is needed in certain areas that aren't accessible by rail. As a transit spine, the Jax rail corridors will serve as major N/S transit connectors and encourage pedestrian friendly infill development along their entire paths.
With that in mind, the commute from OP to Southside isn't a negative with the rail argument. Since we're talking about an integrated regional transit network, its a reason for an express east/west bus line that directly ties the Southwest/Southeast rail corridors with each other at OP and Avenues, via I-295. This service could be made possible by rerouting existing bus services that would duplicate proposed rail corridors.
Doctor_K
May 13, 2010, 01:48:49 PMLake, this is why you're my hero.
thelakelander
May 13, 2010, 01:49:14 PMSo true, so true. Those that want to really take advantage of using rail-based transit in their lifes with begin to seek areas where this is possible. The side benefit of this would be a reduction in the amount of sprawl being developed on the outer edges of our communities.
Mattius92
May 13, 2010, 01:55:01 PMYall see that oil disaster in the Gulf, and wonder how we could stop things like that from happening. Well its called reduce the use of oil, and how do you do that. Well you could walk, but that isn't practical. So whats the next best thing, Mass transit, gosh. Buses and trains use oil but the oil they use is used for more poeple then just a standard car carrying ONE person.
My generation is making to move to reduce oil, I am guess we will just have to wait for the previous generation to die before we can make any changes.
One thing that makes me stand out from hundreds of other people, is I look at every side and I know how things actually work. And if I dont know something then, guess what, I find it out. Ignorance is a huge factor on why certain things happen in our country. I can go on an on... And yes not everyone is going to agree, because I am defying what is normal, and therefore be considered wrong.
stephendare
May 13, 2010, 02:00:56 PMwell most of us are from the two older generations than you are, mattius, and most of us agree with you. During the day, you have several posters from the suburbs who post. And you don't have to wait for anyone to die.
You just get involved, and become part of the vocal majority.
Mattius92
May 13, 2010, 02:11:22 PMYeah, well I plan to be vocal, however I am wondering if my vocal opinion will bring on negativity. I am going to start by not voting for leaders that are not interesting in any smart planning.
Captain Zissou
May 13, 2010, 02:14:56 PMMattius, I strongly disagree with you. As a whole, I think the younger generation is one of the worst to ever walk the earth, especially in America. The attitude of entitlement, apathy, and laziness runs rampant through teens and young adults. Since birth, this generation has been inundated with the get rich quick mindset and the mass marketing of the corporate machine.
However, I think that the internet and media glut has also allowed the forward thinking and innovative minds of our generation to be far more influential than those in the past. Grass roots movements are able to quickly mobilize and disseminate over vast distances far more easily than in the past. Because of this, I think our generation will be able to affect positive change in society.
I do not think our generation is in any way better or more enlightened than the ones before us. In many ways, I think we are worse. We have really had no great crisis, and we do not know the meaning or the benefits of hard work. I think we just have greater tools for informing the masses and influencing others as to the perils of our current way of life. This is why we will create a better tomorrow. It is foolish to discredit the generations before us. They fought the wars, built the cities, and paved the way for us to be in the state we are today.
stephendare
May 13, 2010, 02:20:36 PMI can tell you from experience. Being vocal will bring on negativity.
It also brings on positivity, curiousity, change and commentary. Change is stressful, even good change, always keep that in mind. But you get points for trying to do what you think is the right thing, and for keeping an open mind.
Don't be afraid of negativity. It will come. Its proof you are being heard.
The trick is how to deal with it without being an asshole.
but yah. Stop voting for leaders that are against smart things.
Theres too much at stake to be wasting time arguing with dumbasses.
Mattius92
May 13, 2010, 02:23:20 PMTrue, but many of our leaders have become corrupt, and they are making there generation look bad, but not saying there generation is bad. What we will see is when my generation starts to enter politics then we will see if there is going to be "change". And in time we will become the ones that are running the country, we will be the CEOs, and the Generals. The key to promoting a better generation is looking at the past and seeing what needs to be done in the future to create a better State, country and world.
And yes we are what poeple will call, the first generation of the Information Age. We have a different look on things and we grew up with computers and the internet, these tools help us, and corrupt us. Overall though we have a larger and more educated view on things, because we know what happened in the past.
Mattius92
May 13, 2010, 02:25:17 PMDon't it suck for me being the youngest active participator in these forums.
stephendare
May 13, 2010, 02:28:41 PMlol
1. why should that matter?
and
2. how old are you?
jbroadglide
May 13, 2010, 02:33:30 PMNo, it sounds like you have a lot on the ball. Surprising, since you're a Gator Mattius!
Mattius92
May 13, 2010, 02:38:33 PMI am 17 and I am still underage which means technically I wont have any say till I am turn 18 this December. I can still convince poeple and have a vocal say in things, just doesn't mean that they will matter anything or not. Better to start off early, right?
stephendare
May 13, 2010, 02:43:40 PMIt is better. I started when I was 15. Since there isnt an election before you turn 18, you have just as much say as the rest of us!
Mattius92
May 13, 2010, 02:48:23 PMThat is true, well I plan to be active once I turn 18. Attend planning meetings and making our leaders think... haha
Ocklawaha
May 13, 2010, 03:41:17 PMMattius, I wrote my first letter to the late Congressman Charles Bennett, at the age of 14, it was about passenger rail on the FEC. While there was nothing he could do in that day of pre Amtrak train-slaughter, he wrote back to encourage me to carry the flag and NEVER give up. Today I am one of the oldest Dis·es·tab·lish·men·tar·i·an (look it up) on these webs. "Charlie" and I became good friends, he as a sort of mentor to the loud mouth kid.
Jandar, Think we should change your choice of words here, spic of land or spit of land.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=spit+of+land&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS355US355&ie=UTF-8
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/spic
Otherwise all of the problems could be fixed with scheduling, express trains and reverse commutes both AM and PM. This just means while 5 trains are running from Green Cove Springs to Jacksonville, 2 trains are running the other way. Thus people that came in from St. Augustine and need to get to NAS (for example) can change downtown and head for the ultimate destination. FSUJAX is correct that once this is up and running, employers will flock to it. There could be all sorts of dollar incentives to move near the tracks. Green Industry, less parking required, tax breaks etc... All of those folks from OP to Southpointe would just swap trains downtown and ride a reverse to their destination station. JTA could run an on demand jittney from Bay Meadows, JTB etc... to learn where the business is headed until putting on regular connecting buses. Meanwhile streetcars and Skyway will greatly expand the choices of "where to locate" for urban businesses.
As for pacing the train, they ran at track speed 79 mph most of the way, good luck on pacing THAT.
OCKLAWAHA
jbroadglide
May 13, 2010, 03:52:17 PMI chased the circus train north one year on the FEC from St Augustine to Bayard at just a "touch" over the posted speed limit.
urbanlibertarian
May 13, 2010, 05:22:46 PMStephen, let us know when you master this trick.
Jason
May 13, 2010, 05:26:00 PMThis is fantastic news that the official site has been selected. Now all the city needs to get in line is a circulator system to move the riders from the Amtrak station to the historic core and bay front. Real streetcars would be ideal but in the short term the trollys they have running now would work. If all this happens in time for the 450th anniversary in 2015 it would be an amazing feat and should REALLY place St. Augustine on the map.
http://www.oldcity450.com/
Here is a route I mapped out a while back....
Ocklawaha
May 13, 2010, 05:51:14 PMAll of this was covered in the meeting too. Lot's of talk about 450Th, transit and a need for pedestrians to cross US 1. This last point, walking across one of the busiest and fairly fast roads in NE Florida, nearly shot down this site. We pulled the access street North to Carrera, where a more civil cross walk could be constructed. The city is very sensitive to "VIEW" and "PERCEPTION", so a giant overpass wouldn't work either. Any form of transit MUST cross over to the West side and enter a bus loop near the station. The track will probably be set back somewhat and the curve reconfigured. With the advent of Commuter Rail, this stop would NOT serve as a park and ride but would give good downtown access. If the curve is rebuilt and the line double tracked, a second drive coming in from Depot Street to the west and following the tracks over the San Sebastian River would be possible.
BTW, St. Augustine had a great electric streetcar system with roots that dated back into the 1830's! The famous postcard view of a small train crossing the Matanzas River next to/or where Bridge of the Lions is today is the forerunner of the St. Johns Electric RY.. Another view from the same vantage point with color added clearly shows a St. Augustine Streetcar rolling over the same bridge. Lines extended from St. Augustine Beach to the West Side on King Street, also from downtown North to line into Vilano Beach. It vanished over hot protests in the mid 1920's. Replaced by "modern flexible buses" which lasted until the last streetcar was hauled out onto a farm. Today, the city once again has a transit system - "Sunshine Bus" with several routes including an interchange with JTA at the Avenues Mall.
OCKLAWAHA
Jaxson
May 15, 2010, 10:32:41 AMIf you support Amtrak/FEC, please send an e-mail to gregor.senger@dot.state.fl.us and let Mr. Senger know that you want to have your comments added to the public record. If we are silent about passenger rail in Florida, how will our government know what we want?
Mattius92
May 15, 2010, 10:43:39 AMWhat year did the last passenger train run on the FEC??
Ocklawaha
May 15, 2010, 12:04:11 PM1968
OCKLAWAHA
jandar
May 15, 2010, 04:58:11 PMFond memories Ock?
tbh, if the FEC line had Amtrak running down it, I would probably visit Miami and such more often. I rarely go that far south unless it is business or plan to stay for more than 2 days. 6 hours in a car wears me out to do much that same day.
Murjax
May 15, 2010, 08:28:02 PMI really like the location they chose for this station, however I have my concerns. While the location is technically within walking distance to downtown, passengers still would have to walk over US 1 in order to get to it. With the kind of tourism St. Augustine gets they would need to build a pedestrian bridge there. Also the strip of land they plan to build it on is kind of small so I'm wondering how big they're going to be able to make that parking lot. Not saying it can't be done, I just hope they do it right because if it turns out to be a nothing more than a station and small parking lot then they've just rebuilt another version of what already exists just north of SR 16.
Mattius92
May 15, 2010, 09:10:21 PMI just sent a wonderful email to Mr. Senger. Hopefully it will get him thinking.
thelakelander
May 15, 2010, 09:21:29 PMFrom the aerial posted above, the strip of land looks pretty large. It looks just as large as the old FEC headquarters building now owned by Flagler College. As for crossing the street, my guess is it could become much better if signalized along with pedestrian enhancements.
A crosswalk broken up with a median can help improve crossing conditions for pedestrians.
Ocklawaha
May 15, 2010, 11:05:57 PMThe view from the train was something critical that marketing - tourism, etc. were very concerned with, otherwise it might have gone west where they "located" one in 2002. As it stands, the station will have 28 parking spaces, plus accommodations for tour buses, trams and cabs. The track and curve will be reconfigured leaving a possible opening for both railroad double tracking of the bridge as well as a Depot Street extension to the west, otherwise it will bump up the land available. Somewhere alongside the lot there is a Kayak Rental going in on the San Sebastian (according to the gossip from the planners).
The longest discussion that went on was the crossing of US 1 by pedestrians, in fact it was nearly beat to death. Overpasses would kill the view that they want to market. Beyond that pedestrian crossings, every corner, the fire station stoplight, even shuttles, until I had a "DUH!" moment and suggested we move the entry drive North on US 1, as many blocks as it takes to make a safe crossing. Everyone pounced on that and we ended up with Carrera (Boulevard) Street. It didn't dawn on us in the meeting, but looking at the maps, Carrera couldn't be more perfect as it is a straight shot to the heart of the Ancient City, and far enough from the traffic back ups at US 1 and King to be easily crossed with signals.
JANDAR... FOND MEMORIES? OMG! Last 1st class passenger, off the last train on the FEC RY... Amtrak say's they want to make me the first on... "We'll see..." My folks moved to Daytona Beach where they had a marina, and dad could recover from his accident and surgery's. I was emancipated at 14 and used the FEC as my link between HOME - JAX and HOME - DAB... At least until crazy hippy sis came along and hauled me off to a commune in California but THAT is the beginning of another life story!
OCKLAWAHA
Jaxson
May 15, 2010, 11:18:42 PM@Mattius92 -- Thanks for contacting Mr. Senger. I hope that other Metro Jacksonville people will do the same.
@Ock -- I envy you for having been able to travel on FEC back in the 1960s. I have always been curious about what passenger rail was like in the pre-Amtrak days. It must have been quite an experience being able to board the train from a real terminal instead of the shed that they have now in Jacksonville!
Ocklawaha
May 16, 2010, 12:17:58 AMThis would be very hard to explain to those of you born after 1971. Maybe the closet I could get would be to say it is the difference between a luxury resort and a military barracks. The resort being PRE-AMTRAK, and the barracks being AMTRAK.
You have to understand that every railroad had it's own colors, its own features, and EVERY train had a personality all it's own. NOBODY EVER "took the Coast Line" as people today "took the Amtrak." A passenger took the 20Th Century Limited where they walked out to their train cars on a special red carpet. Every detail from the match books to the china and linen services were emblazoned with the 20Th Century Limited logos. The menu was that of "The 20Th Century Limited" and NOTHING ELSE. Chefs were recruited from the most famous hotels and resorts to create special dishes such as the Seaboard's "Peanut Soup", or the Northern Pacific's "Cedar Plank Salmon". Head's rolled if "the varnish" (slang for the best trains) was 30 seconds late! No excuse! None! Ever! Each railroad generally fielded a fleet of such trains. If you didn't want the 20Th Century between New York and Chicago, there was always "The Empire State Express" on the same route, "The Broadway" over on the Pennsylvania, or even "The Phoebe Snow" over on the Erie. None of this one train each way a day crap. Those trains SERVED and pampered their clientele, live music, piano, bar, lounge, glassware, china, beds and rooms, barbers, manicurist, stylists, fashion shows, RN onboard, Kiddie Programs, movies, etc... Then it was SERVICE - today it is basic ACCOMMODATION. I only wish that somehow I'll be instrumental in taking us back there.
OCKLAWAHA
JC
May 16, 2010, 08:33:51 AMOne of the best things the city can do is implement a "no turn on red" policy this will prevent impatient people from creeping into the middle of the cross walk and blocking it while pedestrians are trying to cross. I understand this would be wildly unpopular among the crowd that only drives through downtown, which is most people, so they would have to be shown the value in waiting for the green.
CS Foltz
May 16, 2010, 11:34:30 AMThat might be difficult JC...........but with lights and crosswalk enhancements, that might help! I would not count on the City Council to do anything other than bolux things up! By the way, I put my two cents in with Mr Senger regarding Amtrak service and the potential in could bring!
danno
May 16, 2010, 01:00:46 PMJust sent my letter to Mr Senger as well.
Murjax
May 16, 2010, 02:19:14 PMI guess a signaled crossing at Carrera would work with just 2 Amtrak trains daily, but what if St. Augustine were ever to get commuter rail? This would result in a constant flow of people coming to and from the station, especially on weekends when a great deal of Jacksonville residents come down to St. Augustine for a day trip. Since passengers discharging from trains come in large groups, the crossing would have to be clear for a lot longer than the 10 seconds that most crossings are. Wouldn't this still make a crossing at Carrera a strain on traffic?
thelakelander
May 16, 2010, 03:06:20 PMI don't see why it would become such a big issue. People cross busier streets on foot in thousands of cities across the US. Signalizing the intersection and providing some pedestrian/traffic calming enhancements in the immediate area should be fine, imo. I also don't see it becoming a strain on traffic. Its only one additional signalized intersection and to be honest, traffic through there should probably be slowed down anyway.
Ocklawaha
May 16, 2010, 08:43:12 PMNot really an issue at this stage and perhaps 15 years out. Amtrak "now" plans 6 daily trains, 3 each way. Money has it that the Palmetto will again be extended to Miami and with luck, an overnight schedule will be created that will make for great intra-state travel. The other two are more then likely going to be sections of the Silver Star and Silver Meteor, both Southbound in the AM, Northbound in the PM.
Commuter rail plays a minor roll at Carrera Street as it WILL NOT be a park and ride station, but it will be served by transit buses and trams. West Augustine is the spot for a large park and ride facility. Airport station will also be just a commuter stop and the only parking will be in the airport itself. I doubt many will want to pay for that short term lot just to go to work.
Don't expect JTA commuter Rail to be much more then 5 or 6 schedules in daily and a like number outbound with perhaps 2 reverse trips, maybe 3 between JTB and JAX TERMINAL.
OCKLAWAHA
Jason
May 17, 2010, 10:18:52 AMExactly! The Square and bayfront can see just as much traffic (although not as fast) but people still find ways to cross safely in masses.
IMO, St. Augustine is the one NEFLA city that understands the pedestrian and fully embraces them, even along US-1. This line should also help that corridor to densify and weed out the car oriented development that has littered it for so many years.
Just drop in a steady stream of trams in the short term and start planning for streetcars and any crossing issues will weed themselves out.
Mattius92
May 17, 2010, 12:52:36 PMStreetcars would be a really good addition to St. Augustine, however there trolleys are alright, but they aren't streetcars. While I am for modern looking streetcars for downtown Jax, St. Augustine needs to find them some retro streetcars.
What is so great about streetcars is there is so many types and looks of them, its almost like a form of poeple-moving hot rod.
Jason
May 18, 2010, 11:39:57 AMA historic streetcar would be a must in order to fit the St. Augustine vernacular. I do like the articulated trams but they are better utilized for tours. Fixed transit would be an amazing boon for the core area and allow infill to follow.
Ocklawaha
May 18, 2010, 01:07:54 PMHells bells, St. Augustine would look good with horsecars!
Likewise, a Heritage Streetcar would be a perfect fit in the historic fabric of downtown Jacksonville, as well as Brooklyn, Riverside, Avondale, Fairfax, Ortega, Murray Hill, Lackawanna, Durkeeville, LaVilla, Fairfield, Springfield, Brentwood, Phoenix, Panama Park, St Nicholas, San Jose and San Marco! After all, streetcars are responsible for building all of them.
But I AGREE with Lake, FSUJAX and others that modern LRV'S would look KILLER GOOD tooling down Philips, Blanding, Arlington Expy, Beach, JTB, Southside etc... etc...
I will be first to suggest a totally "green" system in Jacksonville, using methane gas to generate electric power. Calgary has it's RIDE THE WIND LRT system which is totally wind powered, and ours? well? FLORIDA AREA RAPID TRANSIT .... ride the Fart!
OCKLAWAHA
aaapolito
June 24, 2010, 06:27:29 PMUpdate: http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2010-06-24/story/st-augustine-ready-designate-amtrak-station-san-marco-avenue
thelakelander
June 24, 2010, 07:06:48 PMSo they changed their mind and have decided to go with station north of town because of cost concerns. Hopefully, they'll have some sort of transit service to connect riders to downtown.
St. Auggie
June 24, 2010, 07:27:20 PMWasnt the WHOLE POINT of the stimulus funds to create jobs? Which one would create more jobs: a repurposing or a whole new station, which they will want to build in the future anyways. Why waste the money when the jobs would help now and not waste taxpayers money later. Ohhh, thats right, we are talking about the government. Carry on.
tufsu1
June 24, 2010, 10:05:05 PMthey will...the County runs the Sunsine Bus service...and planning is already underway to restructure some routes if Amtrak service returns...and actually, one of the current routes already serves the site and downtown.
as for building at the new site...I think there may be some major environmental issues in that open field (its likley at least partially wet)...so choosing the other site may expedite the project.
JeffreyS
June 24, 2010, 10:18:44 PMThe most interesting part is the side article.
http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2010-06-24/story/st-augustine-ready-designate-amtrak-station-san-marco-avenue
thelakelander
June 25, 2010, 12:14:41 AM^It is possible to open a no-frills affordable station at the Prime Osborn, sooner rather than later. I've been working with Ock to draw up a conceptual plan. Hopefully, we can get it up online within the next week or so.
Jason
June 25, 2010, 09:15:43 AMI can see the benefits of both locations. The old station has some growing room and would allow for a great streetcar connection to the core via San Marco Ave. The line would easily pick up 90% of the core destinations.
I think I'm still a bit more stuck on how great a station at US1 and Saratoga would look and how it will help to significantly revitalize the area. I guess the same could be said for the other location.
fsujax
June 25, 2010, 09:44:21 AMLake. I have heard JTA is meeting with Amtrak to discuss this very issue.
stephendare
June 25, 2010, 09:49:47 AMFSUJax.
There was a rumour that a very talented replacement for Scott Clem was being interviewed. Have you heard anything about this?
fsujax
June 25, 2010, 09:56:24 AMI heard it is today.
stephendare
June 25, 2010, 10:02:29 AMWell hopefully JTA will finally start making sensible employment choices.
tufsu1
June 25, 2010, 10:13:37 AMmaybe they should hire you
fsujax
June 25, 2010, 10:20:38 AMyou know I saw an advertisement for the Director of Mass Transit position as well. Maybe some of the folks on here who "rail" against JTA should submit their applications.
https://jta.jtafla.com/SiteDirectory/hr/JOBS/Job%20Template%20Library/dirmasstransitFT.aspx
stephendare
June 25, 2010, 10:58:51 AMLet me know when the "executioner' position gets advertised.
Bob is the guy with the resume to direct mass transit, but why on earth is JTA hiring for a job that they don't actually perform?
Is the agency going to start in with Mass transit now?
fsujax
June 25, 2010, 11:03:16 AMhaha. Stephen you kill me sometimes!
arb
September 12, 2010, 08:25:16 PMA bit late for this post, but for the lakeside commuter rail stop there is a available parcel on Greenridge Road next to the tracks. It is a very small lot though so i dont know how they are planning on incorparated a park and ride lot or anything!