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Public Meeting Notice and Agenda
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Forsyth & Main Streets
Meeting Location
Urban Core Vision Plan Steering Committee Meeting
Ed Ball Building - 1st Floor Training Room
214 N. Hogan St. [32202]
Thursday, January 28, 2010
5:30 - 7:30p.m.
Historic Ford Assembly Plant
Meeting Agenda
1. Call Meeting to Order
2. Approval of June 12, 2009 Meeting Summary
3. Presentation by Zyscovich Architects
4. Committee Discussion
5. Public Comments
6. Adjournment
Southbank Riverwalk
Stadium District/Commodore's Point
Hogans Creek/Springfield Park System
Hogans Creek/Springfield Park System
Springfield Warehouse District: Day (above) and Night (below)
Intersection of 8th & Main
Rethinking the architectural design of our overpasses
Mass transit concepts: BRT through the heart of downtown (Adams Street) and no streetcar routes shown.....hmmm?
This will be the final presentation of the Urban Core Vision Plan to the Steering Committee before it's presented to the City Council. If you have any input to provide, try and make the meeting.
To view full draft of Urban Core Vision Plan: http://www.coj.net/NR/rdonlyres/e5z3q7o263bavngozwsx7bsxqhie3u2qayasstauuwkpf3cjyirdpttzs5psaxh76frl5vm56hidj2v4qkgcq7mbgog/0736_UC+Final+Vision+Low+Res.pdf
Update by Ennis Davis
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Bizzyboy
January 27, 2010, 06:09:17 AMmight as well throw that in the can. we all know how good jax is with a plan.
blizz01
January 27, 2010, 08:18:18 AMWow - Shrimp boats at the old Ford Assembly Plant?
fsu813
January 27, 2010, 08:27:03 AMSo is a "vision plan" just sketches, models, and what not to help the policy makers better visualize how things might look?
Or are is it a specific plan that is to be carried out?
thelakelander
January 27, 2010, 08:31:58 AMIt includes things to help policy makers carry out a specific plan. Its a pretty significant document which is why its not posted here, page by page. You can use the link at the end of the article to access the actual draft of the plan on the city's website.
BridgeTroll
January 27, 2010, 08:32:10 AMWow...
aaapolito
January 27, 2010, 08:45:03 AMI hope that the City can use this plan to make downtown a better place.
copperfiend
January 27, 2010, 09:07:45 AMWow. This is pretty cool to look at.
Dog Walker
January 27, 2010, 09:15:14 AMLook carefully at most of the pictures. Notice something? No cars shown in most of them and no on street parking. That's why everything looks so good.
So part of the "vision" is to reduce the number of cars in the urban core by 90%?
strider
January 27, 2010, 09:30:01 AMI like that they used the old coca cola building as a major point of interest. And I also like that most every drawing shows people crossing on the red. Adds a sense of realism. Would be interesting to read the entire thing when I get time.
billy
January 27, 2010, 09:47:40 AMIt's good to put emphasis on potential of areas like:
Springfield Warehouse District
Commodore Point
Ford Assembly Building
copperfiend
January 27, 2010, 09:52:44 AMOne thing I do notice is the plan shows buildings where buildings once stood. Somehow this whole thing could have been avoided.
hanjin1
January 27, 2010, 09:59:18 AMI like it, but i'll believe it when I see it
Overstreet
January 27, 2010, 10:00:27 AMInteresting picture of Forsyth & Main Streets. I take it the photo is existing and the rendering is their idea. Does that mean they want the city to bulid two highrises behind the two story parking garage?
Working shrimp boats at the old Ford plant might be difficult to produce if the shrimp industry keeps declining. They will probalby promise to build a parking garage for the auto traffic and never deliver it.
Overstreet
January 27, 2010, 10:03:02 AMNotice too that they bring shrimp boats in and take the ships and tugs away from the Stadium District/Commodore's Point.
Rocshaboc
January 27, 2010, 10:03:26 AMWishful thinking with this city's history. I hope I'm wrong because I'm so sick and tired of wishing
SarahEHarper
January 27, 2010, 10:10:20 AMI'd like to know as a resident & small business owner what I can do to make this happen. Jacksonville is a great city, I am determined to do my part.
JoeMerchant
January 27, 2010, 10:12:19 AMCan't wait to see more...it looks like a good presentation.
I wonder if Carl's is happy he's going be in a newly constructed 4 story building at the corner of 8th and main, as shown in the perspective. Of course that means demolishing a structure built in 1928 and going above the 35' height restriction...but it's a nice drawing.
thelakelander
January 27, 2010, 10:16:05 AMI attended an Urban Core Vision presentation a few months ago. At the time, they were mentioning that the city should seek to better utilize property in the urban core and downtown. This sketch (building/density replaces parking garage structure) was used as an example of how a major centralized downtown block could be better utilized, with vision.
We'll have a river full of more salt after its dredged for the port expansion (not saying this has anything to do with the sketches drawn).
thelakelander
January 27, 2010, 10:17:47 AMI wonder if Carl's is happy he's going be in a newly constructed 4 story building at the corner of 8th and main, as shown in the perspective. Of course that means demolishing a structure built in 1928 and going above the 35' height restriction...but it's a nice drawing.
I noticed that while cropping the image last night in photoshop. Btw, on Main you can go 45'. The original 3rd & Main plan was four stories but was eventually reduced because of community concern and market feasibility.
JoeMerchant
January 27, 2010, 10:27:56 AM^ Ahh, yes...I was thinking about 8th street where the height restriction was 35'.
tufsu1
January 27, 2010, 10:37:35 AMFor those who like to claim that the City has "no vision, no plan"....this is a Vision.
That said, a lot of it is pie in the sky and will take decades to be realized....the next step is to whittle this down into implementation plans....first is the 20-year Comprehensive Plan....and then 5-year increments.
thelakelander
January 27, 2010, 10:40:18 AMYes, this is where the public will be needed to influence political support, imo.
CS Foltz
January 27, 2010, 11:00:39 AMGentlemen...........lip service has been paid to the public for years! We have plenty of experts and consultants telling us what should be and how it should be but we still don't have what we need to grow! Still no rail, no mass transit, other than JTA'a vision of wall to wall concrete filled with BRT's so until I see something in writing than I can sink my teeth into...........talk is cheap, show me something! Nice to know that Johnny is starting to get the message, but I still have reservations with 18 months or so to go, we are just now discussing what it would take to get downtown up and running and that is not even beginning to discuss all of the issue's that face us.
thelakelander
January 27, 2010, 11:06:37 AM^We have to hold our officials accountable. That's something the general public in this city has not historically done, which is why lip service remains common.
Jason
January 27, 2010, 11:11:09 AMAnother great vision for Downtown. The sad thing is that it will likely be tossed on a shelf somewhere and forgotten, especially when the next one comes out.
We all have our "visions" for downtown (I even did my own and posted them a while back) but the PLAN is what will move us out of the Big Ideas stage and into the future.
Captain Zissou
January 27, 2010, 11:11:18 AMThis is pretty pie in the sky/ long term, but it could be a steering guideline for short term decisions.
I think developing commodore point and the warehouse district is a great idea, albeit 20 years in the future. Expanding the Hogan's creek park area is crucial for Springfield and downtown as a livable neighborhood. That garage on the back of the Crowne Plaza has always upset me, it should interact with the riverwalk more.
The main theme I get from this presentation is clustering development and focusing on creating nodes of activity throughout the core, which I think is the right way to go. Also, notice the skyway runs to the stadium and terminates in 5points at what looks like Annie Lytle. If we accomplished these things, we'd kick the tar out of our current peer cities, and our current self.
fsujax
January 27, 2010, 11:15:44 AMYep. Planners can have the best ideas ever! but until there is political will to actually implement or move forward with something, nothing will happen! We have no lack of ideas, great plans, wills and vision, but we lack the political power to do it. Even the business community here doesn't fully embrace these ideas. Believe me if the Carl Cannons, Haskells, Rummels, Foley's of the city would begin to emphasize these plans we would see things change drastically.
heights unknown
January 27, 2010, 11:23:48 AMI'll believe it when I see it. As someone else said, when it comes to plans and vision, Jax' track record is certainly poor to nil.
"HU"
JagFan07
January 27, 2010, 11:29:02 AMA vision is one thing, paying for it is another. A question to those in the know, do we have the resources available to pull something like this off? Maybe a second Better Jacksonville Plan..say a Better Downtown Plan?
Call me a pragmatist, but I always look to the costs verse benefit. I can see the benefit here but just don't see how we can cover the costs.
thelakelander
January 27, 2010, 11:40:10 AMThis plan is for the Urban Core Planning District (most of preconsolidated COJ, not just DT). There are also vision plans in the works for the Southeast and Arlington Planning Districts.
Ocklawaha
January 27, 2010, 11:44:05 AMTHANK GOD! The Skyway is at least drawn out, amazing that if we would just ask, it would be funded 100%! So "Let's not ask!"
OH MY GOD! Not again! So WHERE ARE THE STREETCARS? The one thing that would drive all of this redevelopment is missing, as usual, from the color ball of Jacksonvilles dreams. The most near-sighted city on earth... I think we at MJ are starting to understand how the Biblical Moses must have felt.
OCKLAWAHA
reednavy
January 27, 2010, 11:46:10 AMIf only we could learn from OKC's success with the MAPS series of projects, now on it's 3rd set of projects. A voter-approved temporary few cents hike in the sales tax paid for all the projects such as the AT&T Bricktown Ballpark, Ford Center, and fixed the COX Convention Center. Now, MAPS 3 will be the most ambitious yet at $777mil and will bring a streetcar line to downtown, a 70-acre central park that will connect the Oklahoma River( North Candian River) to downtown once the Crosstown is moved, a new convention center, and improve sidewalks to name a few.
I'd be more than willing to pay a few cents more on sales tax, as being from Murfreesboro at 9.75%, 7% is cheap and just a .1-.4% increase would do a world of good for the city in helping get this plan and others on the fast track.
konstantconsumer
January 27, 2010, 11:49:18 AMbeautiful, but doesn anyone actually believe this will occur in their lifetime? i'm 28, and fairly certain that it won't in mine.
fsujax
January 27, 2010, 11:50:41 AMIt would make perfect sense for the City to take JTA's transit vision plan, the Mayor's plan for a new convention center, and all of these other plans for Downtown Urban Core and try to sell it to the citizens of Jacksonville as Delaney did with the BJP. Get the Business community involved! Call it BJP2, more transit friendly and figure out how to get the suburban folks to support it. A great core can help all of Duval County! It may fail a few times, but eventually people would support it I believe.
tufsu1
January 27, 2010, 12:00:10 PMexactly fsujax....and that will be the first job of the new Mayor!
fsujax
January 27, 2010, 12:02:54 PMDang. Maybe I should run...on this plan alone!!!! haha
stephendare
January 27, 2010, 12:45:23 PMIts a great vision. The specific buildings they show or the specific corners arent as important as getting people to think along these lines, and visualize what could be done using whats already there.
Lake are you going to this tomorrow>?
civil42806
January 27, 2010, 12:46:02 PMUtter nonsense, this plan might as well be shelved now.
stephendare
January 27, 2010, 12:47:46 PMWhat a spurious thing to claim, civil.
Shelve a vision?
What on earth are you talking about, and what is the nonsensical part to you?
Overstreet
January 27, 2010, 12:49:34 PMDelaney went to the construction contractors in town collecting money for those ads. There was an assumption of more work for local contractors. Economy and experience with that program might not raise as much money this time around.
reednavy
January 27, 2010, 01:20:27 PMDid you even look through all the 130 pages of the presentation? I did, and found it interesting, with plenty of pics and graphics, which is my style of learning.
cityimrov
January 27, 2010, 01:30:26 PMSince I'm bored today and there's very little dissent in this thread, I'll play the role of the common dissenter for this post.
----
This is such a waste of money! Our schools are failing, our roads are falling apart, and the thugs in town are taking over. We don't have money for fancy projects like this! Nobody likes downtown! The mayor convinced the council to vote for a tax increase to prevent the police from leaving and now this! Fix our schools first! Fix our crime problem first! Fix our local neighborhoods first before we waste money on projects like this. Forget downtown, it's a black hole for all our money.
copperfiend
January 27, 2010, 01:35:32 PM----
This is such a waste of money! Our schools are failing, our roads are falling apart, and the thugs in town are taking over. We don't have money for fancy projects like this! Nobody likes downtown! The mayor convinced the council to vote for a tax increase to prevent the police from leaving and now this! Fix our schools first! Fix our crime problem first! Fix our local neighborhoods first before we waste money on projects like this. Forget downtown, it's a black hole for all our money.
Posting straight from the T-U site?
tufsu1
January 27, 2010, 01:35:37 PMok cityimrov, let me help educate....this is a long-term vision....the problems you have listed are things that need to be done now.....there is no reason we can't do both!
Captain Zissou
January 27, 2010, 01:36:03 PMI know you're playing devils advocate, cityimrov, but I'll respond anyway.
In my opinion, this project is fixing 4+ local neighborhoods, and will impact many others. This looks like something Charlotte would propose (except they would follow through). If we did these things, I think we would attract new large businesses, creative small business owners, artists, and smart young adults to downtown and Jax/ NE Florida in general. I think if these projects are done right and done well they will pay for themselves over time.
We do need to fix our schools!
reednavy
January 27, 2010, 01:40:43 PM----
This is such a waste of money! Our schools are failing, our roads are falling apart, and the thugs in town are taking over. We don't have money for fancy projects like this! Nobody likes downtown! The mayor convinced the council to vote for a tax increase to prevent the police from leaving and now this! Fix our schools first! Fix our crime problem first! Fix our local neighborhoods first before we waste money on projects like this. Forget downtown, it's a black hole for all our money.
So, a little advice, read into things before you spew total bullshit. We know about the schools and crime, those are high priorities. Roads, hmm, if we weren't so sprawled it wouldn't be as bad. The damn page says this is a long-term plan, not short-term, so reading is fundamental.
cityimrov
January 27, 2010, 01:48:36 PMSince I'm now out of character, I should add this. In order to make a plan like this reality. We need to well, find good strong arguments that will win over these people. Well, not necessarily these people but moderate voters who think they make a better argument vs us. As much as I want to think they don't exist, seeing how Jacksonville is currently run, a lot of people vote with them vs against them. These people represent votes and votes is what determines what our local politicians will do.
Remember, no matter how cheap it is in reality to live in this city what people remember and tell me about are well - more fees, more taxes. Whenever a new project comes on line, I can just hear them in my head talking about those two things. A lot of people think of New Project = MORE TAXES instead of New Projects = investment for the future
JeffreyS
January 27, 2010, 02:00:58 PMAre you talking about the people who voted for the better Jacksonville Plan? Pretty pessimistic about the people who voted for a progressive plan taxes and all.
Our schools suffer because of this type of thinking that we can afford this part of what we need at the expense of the other thing we need.(more so at the state level). You determine how you want your metro to be and plan, budget and tax accordingly. You do not say what is the min we can collect in taxes and just suffer whatever that may bring.
vicupstate
January 27, 2010, 02:14:16 PMWhat Jax needs is not more plans and pictures, but political will. That is what was so encouraging about the Mayor's recent speech. Putting those words into action will give me hope. More plans that don't really mean anything don't.
hightowerlover
January 27, 2010, 05:16:52 PMAlready let's start digging!!!.... get out the golden shovels to break the soil, and bury this plan at the cursed shipyards site of pipe dreams.
Captain Zissou
January 27, 2010, 07:11:24 PMI just glanced through the whole document and it's amazing! If half of this gets done DT will be much better off, and the study will have been worth whatever it cost. That's an enormous If, however.
9a is my backyard
January 27, 2010, 09:08:46 PMIs anyone planning on attending tomorrow? I'm going to try and be there (although I may be a few minutes late). Obviously this plan is preaching to this choir, but political will gets generated by politicians seeing their constituents behind plans like this.
thelakelander
January 27, 2010, 09:46:00 PMI'm going to try and make it.
stjr
January 28, 2010, 12:49:36 AMLots of "mom and apple pie" and common sense in here. IMHO, the real determinants of our vision will be leadership and private sector investments made in response to public sector investments. If we had these, we wouldn't need to keep rehashing the obvious in expensive studies that belabor the obvious for the most part. Most elements of this study have been thoroughly discussed on MJ at no cost to the City yet remain unaddressed.
Specific to this document, a few observations:
No holistic plan addressing downtown livability to attract downtown residents even though the plan list this as goal.
No mention of education, whether it regards placement of "neighborhood schools" or the impact of a university/college campus downtown.
Did note a call for wider sidewalks, street friendly building fronts, and the importance of historic preservation to build character and distinctiveness (while they lamented over how much has already been lost).
No mention of street cars even though they treasure connectivity. Beaver Street is totally ignored as a major corridor even though it is a U.S. highway, has a full interchange with I-95, and the only connection to the City's west. By the way, they advocate that the "S" line be made a "rails to trails" feature:
No mention of conversion of the Shipyards and JEA properties to parks even though they treasure the river and access to it, advocate for conversion of brownfields (JEA site is so marked on one map) to parks, and advocate for active parks (without offering a downtown site for one):
Nice critique of our just completed multimillion dollar fixup of Main Street showing once again what happens when we get so wrapped up in some of these "visions" that we lose site of common sense needed for daily livability:
In fact, most successful retail streets do not have medians.
This was an interesting quote following their chastising the placement of medians just installed on Main Street as not retail or pedestrian friendly:
They should have added JTA to this comment despite their facade of being a mass transit agency as well.
samiam
January 28, 2010, 01:19:30 AMWhat we need to make this work is rail. rail, rail, rail, rail, rail, and lets not forget RAIL !!!!
Ocklawaha
January 28, 2010, 01:36:33 AMX2
OCKLAWAHA
samiam
January 28, 2010, 01:44:12 AMIf any of you attend this meeting PLEASE ask the powers that be what the hell do they have against rail. I just cant understand the thinking of the so called leader of this city. It is a fact if you have rail you have development. As Forrest gump would say they go together like peas and carrots
samiam
January 28, 2010, 01:50:28 AMWake up little prince Peyton, you have a situation that has never happened before. We have a president that is giving away money for RAIL. I see it, why cant you ?
samiam
January 28, 2010, 02:14:21 AMIf there is an ulterior motive to this BRT crap it needs to be exposed. No one is saying boy am i glad we are going to get a BRT system It sure is exciting. I think I will ride it every day.
samiam
January 28, 2010, 02:32:05 AMJTA times have changed. Get with the program. we as a city would get the most bang for the buck from rail. MY god why cant you see it. Are you so blinded by the greed and corruption of the past that you cant see all the free money the feds would give you if you would create a system that everyone would ride. I know for a fact that it would not only be use as transportation to and from work, A large percentage of the ridership would ride just for the fun of it, I would
tufsu1
January 28, 2010, 09:20:59 AMI don't think this was JTA's vision....if it was, you likely would see streetcar routes instead of skyway extensions.
fsujax
January 28, 2010, 09:46:19 AMIf you look at the "Acknowledgements" page, JTA is no where to be found. It appears they were not invited to be part of this process. JTA's map for the future looks different than the ones proposed in this plan.
http://www.jtafla.com/futureplans/Media/PDF/TIM.pdf
http://www.jtafla.com/futureplans/
I am planning on attending the meeting.
cline
January 28, 2010, 10:02:08 AMThe fact that JTA was not involved in this vision process is really really poor. Since JTA is a major stakeholder, one would think they would have been included.
tufsu1
January 28, 2010, 10:55:29 AMEven worse...from what I understand, this effort was managed by the Planning Department....and there is no mention of streetcars...yet the mobility plan being worked on right now (also being managed by the Planning Department) envisions streetcars.
stjr
January 28, 2010, 12:41:33 PMCompare Jax's "visioning" process to San Francisco's posted on another MJ thread. Their planner has full say over ALL aspects of the urban core, from economic development and neighborhoods to transportation and city planning. Until we have a UNIFIED and HOLISTIC, not piecemeal, process to Jax "visioning" and execution of same, we will continue to have chaotic and inconsistent planning and follow through.
I am no fan of JTA, but until we have something better, they need to be part of the process, even if they will muck it up. At least, others will have a shot at fixing them. The way it is now, it appears they are flying under many planner's radar.
stephendare
January 29, 2010, 10:29:54 AMWell we all attended the event last night.
It was actually a pretty engaging meeting.
That is, once it got started.
The initial presentation was a bit long, and delivered in the same monotone that an oral engineering and trigonometry exam might given, but it immediately got lively.
Ock gave a fiery altar call for street cars, Mack Bissette managed to offend the dogshit out of the representatives from the eastside, Chris Green got a little defensive, and I felt like I helped to keep the discussion real with my input.
There were some good points raised by the consultants, a few poisonous 'solutions' and a certain antipathy to those pesky residents of the non gentrified neighborhoods.
It was also nice to see Mike Salyer and Christine Parrish at the meeting. These two people need to get more involved in the urban core.
I got to mention the famous 7 foot tall, adams appled prostitutes of Springfield in one of my comments. TUFSU, sitting nearby mentioned that last week I had described them as 6ft 8. "They must have grown", he offered.
Just as it was evident that several of the audience members had brought knives to a gunfight, the chair announced that the meeting was adjourned.
brainstormer
January 30, 2010, 02:52:55 PMIs there anyone in this city who has the balls to tackle this vision and not back down? There are wonderful ideas in the document and enormous amounts of potential. Priorities will have to be established and our city leadership must develop better communication. It is exciting to think that Jacksonville could one day be a jewel on the St. Johns. One of the past problems in Jacksonville is that developments are suggested and then approved and they don't fit into the vision. We need a strong mayor to lead this effort and right now I'm not convinced any of those running have what it takes.
Now for a few comments and suggestions...
I'm surprised that the vision doesn't included bringing the Hart Expressway down to street level. This will have to be either leveled or rebuilt in the next 25 years. Personally I think the current raised expressway is ugly and separates the Sports complexes from the river. I think it would be better to rebuild the Arlington expressway so that there was a ramp that directly connected to the Hart bridge.
The Hogans Creek expanded central park could be a beautiful addition to the urban core and could potentially be implemented soon.
I love the idea of developing Commodore Point and investing around the stadium/sports district.
I think with the push at the federal and state levels to invest in higher education, we need to think about trying to get a university or college downtown along the river. I'm thinking about what Charlotte just accomplished with Johnson and Whales. Is there any potential to rethink where Florida State College of Jacksonville fits into our urban core? Could a larger downtown campus with possible residential components ever be possible? Is there any demand for student housing? Just something to think about.
Are the Met Park improvements the mayor has proposed going to support this vision or are we spending money on things now that we will tear up when we start something else? This is a result of a lack of communication in city government.
Implementing elements of a vision should not have to require huge amounts of taxpayer funding! We need to get more creative with incentives and stop spending money on useless things that don't support the vision. One of our greatest assets is the amount of land the city owns. We need to use this to our advantage.
In general, I'm excited about the future of Jacksonville, and quite pleased they are trying to create some sort of vision.
stjr
January 30, 2010, 03:21:28 PMBrainstormer, locating a college campus on the Shipyards property would both give Downtown a decent college campus and insure public access to the river with a sharing of a park and college sports field facility.
The trick is finding a college to relocate there. We need JEDC to consider recruiting one to Jax just like they would recruit a company. A college would have a far greater impact on the City, Downtown, jobs, and reversing any brain drains.
tufsu1
January 30, 2010, 04:08:10 PMFrom whatI have been told, they pretty much stayed out of downtown with this Vision and left that to JEDC...which may explain why the Hart Expwy. was not addressed
thelakelander
January 30, 2010, 06:31:11 PMPersonally, I would have liked to see more focus on Urban Core neighborhoods like Durkeeville, Brentwood, Panama Park and the Eastside. Outside of the port area, it seems most of the focus was centered around Springfield and the former Sugar Hill area.
stephendare
January 30, 2010, 06:37:07 PM100% true lake.
Charles Hunter
January 30, 2010, 06:47:04 PMAre any of those areas in the Urban Core Planning District/CPAC - except Eastside?
West: Margaret Ave. to I-10 to I-95 to Myrtle Ave. to King Rd., to Spires St. to 13th to Fairfax to CSX RR to Spires to Moncrief Creek to Golfair Blvd. to Pearl to CSX RR to Winona Dr., to Evergreen to Long Branch Rd. to St. Johns River.
South: I-95 to Bee Street to St. Johns River
East: St. Johns River
North: Moncrief Creek to Golfair Blvd. to Pearl to CSX RR to Winona Dr., to Evergreen to Long Branch Rd. to St. Johns River.
And they are so much on the geographic fringe of their "parent" CPACs that they would pay much attention to them. Perhaps the Planning Districts need to be redrawn - I think they've been the same since the 1970s.
brainstormer
January 30, 2010, 08:06:21 PM^tufsu, there in lies the problem. No one is really in charge. Why do we have so many freakin' groups in this city that are in charge of something, but not really. The planning councils, development commissions, advisory committees, JTA and all the other groups have gotten to the point where nothing gets done and there is zero communication. There is nothing wrong with having a small vision for Hogan's Creek or Commodore Point, but shouldn't transit and roads be included in the large picture? Transit and mobility is what connects each little area to all the others. Why aren't we all working together on one large map? Why does each little group live in a bubble. We all live in the same city!!!
tufsu1
January 30, 2010, 08:51:15 PMIts actually quite simple...the Planning Department is staff for everything outside of downtown, which is handled by JEDC...then onto the Planning Commission...and finally to City Council....this is pretty similar to how every community in FL does it.
That said, I will agree that often there seems to be zero communication.
Ocklawaha
January 30, 2010, 10:34:01 PMhttp://www.jtafla.com/futureplans/Media/PDF/TIM.pdf
http://www.jtafla.com/futureplans/
I am planning on attending the meeting.
I'd love it, y'all just tell us when these things happen and I'll show up. The JTA board as well as the planning meetings need to be on some sort of calender. I wish we could create an interactive MJ calender.
By the way FSUJAX, Who did the cross-hatches on the map http://www.jtafla.com/futureplans/Media/PDF/TIM.pdf showing the CSX/Commuter Rail west of town toward Beaver in red? Both that spot and several other show an alternating cross hatch on the red line... Does the JTA planners even know that solid, equidistant cross hatches are ALWAYS used for standard gauge railroads, and alternating cross hatches are ALWAYS used for narrow gauge. TRUE! Maybe someone is trying to tell us something? Otherwise do we just calculate whoever drew the map doesn't know that much about rail?
OCKLAWAHA
brainstormer
January 30, 2010, 10:46:54 PMThat said, I will agree that often there seems to be zero communication.
You make it sound so simple and easy.
JeffreyS
January 31, 2010, 01:14:01 AM^^ That is why strong mayors get their way in most cities. Even here when Peyton wanted fees and the council was hesitant he got them. If your mayor really wants it you get it.
wasworsethanyou
January 31, 2010, 01:58:50 AMResidential buildings with store fronts... that'd be a good step in the right direction... No more building offering nothing to pedestrians
CS Foltz
January 31, 2010, 07:48:02 AMbrainstormer..........good idea! Putting JTA into City Hall would be lots cheaper then building them a new office complex they neither need nor the taxpayers wish to pay for! Plenty of other options with existing Bldg's that have not been discussed or pursued........Fed Bldg, old JEA Bldg.............barges floating on the St Johns!
tufsu1
January 31, 2010, 09:56:48 AMyes CS...there is no question that floating barges on the river would be cheaper
Coolyfett
February 01, 2010, 02:22:19 PMLooks good....I like the No car thing.
Vickie
February 14, 2010, 05:30:04 PMsamiam
January 28, 2010, 12:44:12 AM
If any of you attend this meeting PLEASE ask the powers that be what the hell do they have against rail. I just cant understand the thinking of the so called leader of this city. It is a fact if you have rail you have development. As Forrest gump would say they go together like peas and carrots
Samiam,
I totally agree with you and my friends who supports rail. For approximately seven years, I have tried to get the so-called powers to be to see the bigger picture, cost effectiveness, and beneficial effects that the return of the rail would have in our city. We are so far behind until we think we are ahead because we do not see anyone around us, not realizing that everyone left us a long time ago. As an elected official, I am at the stage of out right disgust and unbelief of the mentality of holding this city back instead of moving forward. Being that I have said that I am an elected official, I will use my real name when the fellows help me to make the change. I am Councilwoman Glorious Johnson. IT'S RAIL TIME!!!!!!! So let's RUMBLE!!!!! Choo!!! Choo!!!! ChOOOO!!!!!
CS Foltz
February 14, 2010, 08:08:27 PMOK Vickie................welcome to the Metro Jacksonville Blog......and yes I agree! The powers that be have no idea about much of anything which has been proven over and over again! Mass transit equals rail, as one small part of the transportation pie and the powers that be JUST DON"T GET IT! I do have some 2x4's available but I don't think it will help the GOB Network get the message...........if they can't make money off of it, they ain't interested kid!
thelakelander
February 14, 2010, 08:16:51 PMWelcome to Metro Jacksonville, Councilwoman Johnson!
GoldenEst82
April 30, 2010, 12:43:14 AMI want to throw this out there, as it is a peeve of mine...
But what about expansion of the mono-rail?
Wouldn't be awesome instead of tearing up roads for rails, we continued the system to include the Sports Complex, Riverside, Springfield and Murray Hill?
Maybe eventually, to the beaches?
It is really the Fail Rail- a giant visible waste of money.
I worked downtown and lived in Riverside and had to drive, and that is sad.
I would have paid a DOLLAR each way to not have paid for parking, and the use of gas.
Why is this not on the table?
stjr
April 30, 2010, 11:34:04 AMGoldenEst82, welcome to MJ.
You may get a potential wave of responses when you bring up the $ky-high-way on MJ. This is one of the most discussed subjects we have here. I suggest, to save time, you might want to review numerous threads in the Forum board under Transportation, Mass Transit, and Infrastructure. If you sort the thread by subject, views, or replies, you will find top listings reviewing this subject ad infinitum. Pros and cons. Draw your own conclusions.
Happy reading and we will see you again in a few days