Lerner Shops at 118 Main in Downtown Jacksonville being demolished.
Here is a brief list of downtown historic buildings, structures and landmarks that could end up becoming the next poorly maintained surface parking lot.
Locator Map
1. Annie Lytle School
1011 Peninsular Place
When it opened as Public School No. 4 in 1917, the Annie Lytle School anchored Riverside Park. During the 1950s, when the Jacksonville Expressway Authority got interested in urban design, I-95 was constructed within a few feet of the building, totally isolating it from the park it anchored. One can assume that highway construction in the urban core can have a negative impact on its surroundings, considering this iconic structure has been vacant since 1960. While several redevelopment plans have come and gone, now without a roof in some areas, the Annie Lytle may not hang on much longer.
2. Davis Brothers Furniture Company / Club Kartouche Building
618 & 638 West Forsyth Street
These 100-year-old buildings are a few that, up to this point, have survived the LaVilla demolition craze. Once a part of a massive warehouse district that spring up around the railroad terminals, these warehouses have housed everything from furniture companies to nightclubs, including the Paradome, Milkdome, 618, DV8 and Club Kartouche.
Today, what was once one of Jacksonville's most interesting urban scenes is now a wasteland of isolated warehouses surrounded by vacant and surface parking lots. With the new county courthouse finally underway, be on the look out for additional demolitions to happen in the area in anticipation of future development taking their place.
3. Fire Station No. 5
347 Riverside Avenue
Built in 1910, this station was the lone historic survivor along an historic commercial corridor, after the design and widening of Riverside Avenue. After standing for 99 years and surviving FDOT, if the Mayor's Office has their way, it may not get a chance to turn 100. Due to a land swap the city made with Fidelity, what could easily become a cultural attraction or trolley barn (we're speaking real trolleys, not the PCTs on rubber wheels) could end up as asphalt for more cars to drive on.
4. Florida Baptist Convention Building
218 W. Church Street
Visible crumbling, this building was the last downtown Jacksonville office building designed by H.J. Klutho. Completed in 1925, it was also the first office facility to be constructed and owned by a state Baptist organization.
5. Ford Assembly Plant
Wambolt Street at the St. Johns River
Florida has never been known for being a major player in the automobile industry but Jacksonville was once home to a Ford Assembly plant that employed 800 people during the 1920s. Churning out 200 Model-T's a day, Jacksonville's assembly plant was designed by famed industrial architect Albert Kahn and is built on a quay extending 800 feet into the St. Johns River. Massive in size and disconnected from the downtown core by the Matthews Bridge and Commodore Point Expressways, the assembly plant awaits a new use large enough to fill its expansive size.
The assembly line in 1948.
6. Friendship Fountain
Completed in 1965, the Fountain of Friendship (named at the suggestion of a Rotary Club member because one of the Club’s cardinal principles is friendship) was the world’s largest and tallest fountain, capable of spraying 17,000 gallons of water a minute to a height of 120 feet. Accentuated by colored lights at night, it soon became a popular tourist destination and local recreation site. Although, its not exactly historic, over the last 40 years it has become a local landmark and one of the most photographed spots in the city. Today, the fountain's pumps are in need of replacement but city leaders prefer demolishing (or altering) the landmark and replacing it with an interactive kiddie fountain. A compromise could be to restore the fountain while adding a smaller interactive fountain nearby. Unfortunately, it appears not many are interested in compromises that favor complete preservation of local landmarks.
Friendship Fountain with working parts.
7. Guaranty Trust and Savings Bank
101 E. Bay Street (corner of Bay & Ocean)
This building was constructed in 1902 by the First National Bank, Florida's earliest national bank. Over the years, its been the site of a few bank failures, a suicide by head bank cashier Thomas R. Henricks in 1924, and the last architectural office of H.J. Klutho. Today, with a hole in the roof and an astronomical asking price by the owner, it sits empty.
8. Hogans Creek Improvement Project
Jacksonville clearly has no respect for famed architect Henry J. Klutho. Half of the buildings on this list were designed by this Prairie School style leader.
The Hogans Creek Improvement Project could be considered Klutho's crown jewel. This 1929 project solved the severe flooding issues with Hogans Creek by diverting the creek channel in several places, constructing automatic tide locks, a pumping plant, and two lakes to serve as reservoirs for the fluctuation of tides.
In addition, the project included the construction of 6,300 feet of bulkheads, six vehicular bridges, three ornamental footbridges, 10,000 yards of sidewalks, decorative balustrades, and light fixtures. When complete, this project transformed Jacksonville's Central Park (Springfield Parks) into a promenade today's riverwalks still can't compete with.
Today, this massive public works project is collapsing into the creek it was built to control.
9. Laura Trio
NE corner of Laura and Forsyth Streets
Left to Right: The Florida Life, Marble Bank and Bisbee Buildings
The Bisbee, The Marble Bank and the Florida Life Buildings make up the Laura Trio site. Completed in 1908, the "Chicago-style" Bisbee Building was Florida's first skyscraper. Just to the north, the Florida Life Building was completed in 1912 and has been called Jacksonville's purest statement of a "skyscraper."
Built for the Florida Life Insurance company, the narrow structure included intricate ornamentation typically used by famed architect, Louis Sullivan. Both of these towers were designed by and are the last remaining local high rise designs of H.J. Klutho.
The third building and the oldest, is the Marble Bank Building, which was completed in 1902. This Neo-Classical Revival style building has been named the crown jewel and only building worth preserving out of these three by many in the shortsighted Jacksonville development community. A recent article in the local paper suggested that the two towers should be demolished to help make it feasible to preserve the Marble Bank Building. One can only imagine what the atmosphere of places like Savannah, Boston, San Francisco and Charleston would be today with that kind of mentality towards historical structures.
Two years ago it looked as though they would be saved, but after the downfall of Cameron Kuhn's financial empire, their future looks rocky at best.
The Marble Bank and Bisbee Buildings (Florida National Bank) can be seen in the center of this 1940s photograph.
10. Jacksonville Terminal Subway (Pedestrian Subway)
At times, we can spend too much of our efforts focusing on what can been seen from the street as opposed to what may be under it. While Jacksonville's historic railroad terminal is not in danger of being demolished, the passenger tunnels constructed as a part of the terminal complex are.
During the terminal's heyday, these pedestrian tunnels helped funnel 20,000 rail passengers a day in and out of downtown Jacksonville. Sometimes, there is no need to reinvent the wheel when a logical solution that worked for nearly sixty years still remains in place. Unfortunately, instead of working to reuse a highly unique way to move large numbers of pedestrians, in a Florida setting, current transportation center plans call for this system to be destroyed and replaced with a modern elevated rail structure.
11. Woolworth Building (AHL Annex Building)
Now referred to as the AHL Annex Building, F.W. Woolworth's 5 & 10-cent Store was the original tenant when it was completed in 1917. Today, it stands as the last remaining historic retail building on a stretch of Forsyth Street that was once the epicenter of downtown's retail and Theater District. Now abandoned, it was recent recipient of building condemnation status. With no solid prospects for immediate re-use and a demo happy code enforcement department, this building could soon become Main Street's next parking lot.
During the 1950's, the building housed a Betty Maid retail store in the middle of a walkable retail district. Today, its one of the last historic structures still standing in this area.
DISHONORABLE MENTION
12. Springfield Historic District
A lot of good things have happened in recent years in this revitalizing urban core district just north of downtown. However, the rapid continuation of building demolitions within its boundaries raises enough concern to add the entire historic district to this list. If things don't change soon, we should begin to ask ourselves, "At what point will it not be considered a historic district anymore?"
WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS ARTICLE?
Very few American urban cores have become interesting vibrant atmospheres without a significant investment in the preservation of historic building stock. Currently, downtown Jacksonville's stock of historic building fabric is a shadow of what it was just twenty years ago.
If the city, its leaders, community activist and residents are truly interested in creating a sustainable urban core, historic preservation, along with urban connectivity, should be at the forefront of that plan. Nothing else will work.
Article by Ennis Davis
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aaapolito
September 16, 2009, 06:59:05 AMThat's would be sad to lose all that history. I hope that people just have some patience and wait out the recession. To an extent, I cannot fault the vacancy of some of these buildings because I honestly believe that there are not many people who have the capital/ or can get the finances to do something with these buildings. Furthermore, with the great excess of available commercial space, the options for these buildings is likely limited.
jeh1980
September 16, 2009, 07:02:56 AMI don't believe that the Friendship Fountain will ever get torn down anytime soon.
thelakelander
September 16, 2009, 07:11:28 AMLet's hope not, jeh1980. One of the best ways to preserve it is to make sure people don't forget about the situation that it is currently in. Which is the reason, its on this list.
civil42806
September 16, 2009, 07:41:50 AMVery sad, but I doubt that there is any hope of saving any of these other than the firehouse and friendship fountain
Steve
September 16, 2009, 08:38:33 AMI think we dodged a bullt with the Woolworth building office space. While I would love to see a more active use, office is better than vacant. Right now, that corner is so depressing, especially considering that 90 years ago it was one of jacksonville's busiest pedestrian intersections
archiphreak
September 16, 2009, 08:56:13 AMFriendship fountain WILL be torn down soon. It's already in the works and has been for quite some time. They'll pull typical bait and switch of politics: while we're concerned about some other problem they'll quietly get crews out there to tear it down and pave over it.
With regards to our future as a city and as a vibrant urban core: I think it will take a small group of concerned, like-minded investors to buy these properties, shore them up and soon develop them to avoid the wrecking ball. The city WILL NOT preserve these buildings, as can plainly be seen. It will take private enterprise to save them. We can do all the screaming at city hall we want, but in the end it's going to be up to a brave few investors to put their stake on Downtown to save it. If the money were there, you'd see my face on the front page tomorrow to buy up these buildings and convert them back to storefronts and apartments and lofts and furniture stores and grocers and all the things that a functioning core needs. Unfortunately I'm not independently wealthy. Anyone want to loan me the money, call. ;-)
stephendare
September 16, 2009, 09:29:28 AMWith regards to our future as a city and as a vibrant urban core: I think it will take a small group of concerned, like-minded investors to buy these properties, shore them up and soon develop them to avoid the wrecking ball. The city WILL NOT preserve these buildings, as can plainly be seen. It will take private enterprise to save them. We can do all the screaming at city hall we want, but in the end it's going to be up to a brave few investors to put their stake on Downtown to save it. If the money were there, you'd see my face on the front page tomorrow to buy up these buildings and convert them back to storefronts and apartments and lofts and furniture stores and grocers and all the things that a functioning core needs. Unfortunately I'm not independently wealthy. Anyone want to loan me the money, call. ;-)
You know what, archi? I would agree with your assessment three years ago, but I think we have elections coming up again, and it is time to replace the worst government that Jacksonville has had in at least 40 years. Term limits and different times will give us a chance to do something about this.
We really can make a difference, you know.
But we need to get more people involved in our process so that come this election we arent overwhelmed with such a terrible quality of leadership.
buckethead
September 16, 2009, 09:47:27 AMI'd like to share your optimism, Stephen.
Demonstrating is not something I have done before, but I would certainly lend my carcass to bolster a head count of a vocal and visible
protest/demonstrationcampaign to save and restore some of our heritage and identity. When and where? How can we get in the news? Every channel, and the TU as well as the indie rags. Multiple times. Let us be the squeaky wheel that gets the oil.stephendare
September 16, 2009, 09:58:23 AMIm right there with you man.
I suppose the first thing that we can do is to tell as many people as you can to come to this site,so that they can get familiar with the issues.
Then we need to get an email list started up, and then we start raising a little hell in order to make our issue paid attention to in the elections---and I say hell, but I mean some serious dialogue and active citizenship. And when we have candidates like Don Redman and a few others that don't know the first damned thing about leadership or running a city, then we need to be the first ones out there looking for options.
We need some clear leadership and we just arent getting it.
We cant just go on electing dumbasses and worse and expect that its going to turn out well.
buckethead
September 16, 2009, 10:21:16 AMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0yucFw3qCQ
Tried to find the "Now lead dammit.... Teamsmanship" scene to no avail. This will have to do.
reednavy
September 16, 2009, 10:25:20 AMarchiphreak, you got a source or something to back up those claims?
jbroadglide
September 16, 2009, 10:46:41 AMI have a call in to the Deputy Director of Parks and Rec for COJ and will let you all know what he or she tells me.
jbroadglide
September 16, 2009, 10:57:10 AMOkay I have talked with the Deputy Director for Parks and Councilman Warren Jones office and neither one knows anything about bulldozing of Friendship Fountain and paving it over. And Councilman Jones office stressed that they certainly would be aware of this if it were true. They did say there have been discussions about repairs and maintenance of the pumps and the fountain and I had heard that same thing several years ago myself.
So unless someone has better info or has seen the project plans, I hope this rumor is put to rest.
Lunican
September 16, 2009, 10:59:43 AMThis is from 2006, so the plan might be dead now.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2006-sep-friendship-fountain-the-truth-beneath-the-lies
coredumped
September 16, 2009, 06:27:15 PMStephendare is on to something. I think we can all raise awareness by telling people about MJ.
How about some bumper stickers with all proceeds going to the historic society?
Or something simple:
stephendare
September 16, 2009, 09:09:19 PMHow about some bumper stickers with all proceeds going to the historic society?
Or something simple:
This is beautiful! coredumped! Please do! Bumper stickers would be amazing! Any type of way to get the word out would be incredible: Street campaigns, send emails to friends (the smarter ones, please
The more people are aware that there is a place to do something, the better!
thelakelander
September 16, 2009, 09:39:51 PMCool. BTW, what ever happened with the T-shirt idea Ock had a while back?
sheclown
September 16, 2009, 09:58:03 PMT-shirts are a cool idea.
reednavy
September 16, 2009, 09:59:14 PMDon't make it bumper sticker, make it a clingy window one.
DavidWilliams
September 16, 2009, 10:11:04 PMI like the smaller logo, Stephen. I will "represent".
buckethead
September 16, 2009, 11:01:39 PMI like the smaller better as well. I tend toward understated. (no bumper stickers on my car) However, MJ means nothing mor than Michael Jordan to someone who doesn't already know. IRLs Sells.
Doug San Diego
September 16, 2009, 11:17:17 PMI like your bumper sticker mock up. Make sure it references the website.
This website has so much information. If it cannot make the sale to prospective members / activists, then nothing will.
I feel I know as much about Jacksnoville, as I do about San Diego.
With regards to the warehouses, you have another piece on San Diego's ballpark district. Initially, the developer was going to clear the entire area, but a lawsuit by Save Our Heritage stopped the project and lead to negotiations that saved all but one building in the proposed warehouse historic district. Now, the area is interwoven with new and old and is a delight, even in its adolescent state to tour. The ballpark itself is technically an addition to the much smaller, National Register listed Western Metals building. In the early years of re-development here, heritage buildings were knocked down, or replicated leading to some rather low quality development in Centre City. Now, the City advocates multiple buildings on a block, preferably of different ages, because that type of development has provided better bottom line (read:$$$$$) results.
Demolition of any building over 45-years old anywhere in the City of San Diego is automatically subject to historic review, although illegal demolitions have occurred in the past.
You seem to have many motivated people, but from reading what is happening and has happened there, I am alarmed and urge you to get cracking! Good luck!
untarded
September 17, 2009, 02:10:20 AMI agree that the url is necessary. I'd also suggest using different color fonts for 'metro' and 'jacksonville' to enhance readability. Perhaps a controversial slogan that also grabs attention like "Your leaders are jackasses." Grab attention.
archiphreak
September 17, 2009, 08:26:39 AMof course city officials are going to say "there is no current plan to demolish the fountain", or "we've had many discussions on repairing the fountain", and etc. THEY'RE POLITICIANS! My "rumor" comes from conversations that I've had with city officials and other architects in the city about proposed projects and "ideas" that have been floated over the last couple of years. As far as civic action, Stephen, hellz yeah. I'm all for it. We do have elections coming up and I can't wait for them. My only concern is, what happens if, like the last mayoral election, there is no candidate more qualified than our current "leader"? At some point, if there are no viable candidates for office, we need to become those candidates. My own two cents.
buckethead
September 17, 2009, 08:41:12 AMFitting, but perhaps too direct and potentially offensive. I suppose it is better to recruit allies than enemies.
sheclown
September 17, 2009, 05:44:39 PMIn Springfield we just say "oops...I was trying to fix it when it just fell over...my bad."
urbanlibertarian
September 17, 2009, 10:26:54 PMI need a bumper sticker to cover my "Bob Barr '08" sticker.
Ocklawaha
September 18, 2009, 01:50:41 AMI'm still here Lake... Just a bit bruised and battered, hee hee! I want to create maybe 5 designs that speak to Commuter Rail, Streetcar, Skyway and maybe Amtrak/Jacksonville Terminal.
"CATCH THE SPARK!" STREETCARS JACKSONVILLE
"SAINT ELMOS FIRE!" JACKSONVILLE TRACTION
Anyone else? Jump on in... Can't wait for stjr's entry for the Skyway! I would use the funds as a war chest so more public pressure could be brought to zero in on our targets at City Hall.
OCKLAWAHA
Ocklawaha
September 18, 2009, 02:03:21 AMI think your onto something. Saying, "Do you love Jacksonville? Help Save it!" gives a visitor a foredrawn conclusion that somehow this city is going straight to hell. FACT: We're NOT, in fact we are being quite successful in spite of our lackluster leaders.
I would suggest some catchy single or two to three word teases:
"Florida's Global Port" MJ
"We Financed Miami" MJ
"Streetcars NOW Jacksonville" MJ
"Expand Our Monorail" MJ
"Commute By Rail" MJ
"American Bottoms Everywhere!" MJ
I think then we show up at the Fairs, booths, etc... and sell, sell, sell the future!
Petitions, Tee Shirts, MJ Stickers... YES WE CAN!
OCKLAWAHA
sheclown
September 18, 2009, 06:07:41 AMAmerican Bottoms Everywhere? It is catchy, but I don't quite understand.
BridgeTroll
September 18, 2009, 08:10:28 AMbuckethead
September 18, 2009, 09:13:10 AMI think your onto something. Saying, "Do you love Jacksonville? Help
SaveRestore and Rebuid it!" gives a visitor a foredrawn conclusion that somehow this city is going straight to hell. FACT: We're NOT, in fact we are being quite successful in spite of our lackluster leaders.I would suggest some catchy single or two to three word teases:
"Florida's Global Port" MJ
"We Financed Miami" MJ
"Streetcars NOW Jacksonville" MJ
"Expand Our Monorail" MJ
"Commute By Rail" MJ
"American Bottoms Everywhere!" MJ
I think then we show up at the Fairs, booths, etc... and sell, sell, sell the future!
Petitions, Tee Shirts, MJ Stickers... YES WE CAN!
OCKLAWAHA
Save the "_________" will fall upon deaf ears. "Rebuild" sounds like money to be made.
vicupstate
September 18, 2009, 09:34:39 AMHow about this
Metro Jacksonville:
If the people lead, the leaders will follow.
BridgeTroll
September 18, 2009, 09:46:10 AMI like it Vic! Add the URL at the bottom.
buckethead
September 18, 2009, 09:53:57 AMI agree! Best one so far!
Peraps a shortened version for the quick read:
BridgeTroll
September 18, 2009, 10:20:02 AMNext up... any graphics designers out there? C'mon folks!
Asia
September 25, 2009, 12:06:19 PMThis is so upsetting. What can be done, besides bumperstickers, be done to help save these pieces of history?
(Not that the stickers aren't awesome, of course.)
stephendare
September 25, 2009, 12:23:12 PMcall your city council person and email them with the list. Let them know how you feel. Believe it or not, this makes a difference!
Ocklawaha
September 25, 2009, 04:10:52 PMIt's an inside plug for our Port growth. "Bottom" is the shipping term for the home nation of a cargo ship. It's not unusual to see signs pushing this or that bottom around international ports. We could go with "Oriental Bottoms" but since we only have about 2 cargo ships left in the USA, I thought well what the heck.
OCKLAWAHA
stephendare
September 25, 2009, 04:12:18 PMhmm. I dare you to run around announcing that your an american bottom in riverside, ock.
Ocklawaha
September 25, 2009, 04:31:23 PMWell, I couldn't be an American Bottom, but my ship sure as hell could... IF I had one... The sad part for me is, in this booming future leading port, nobody knew WTF??
OCKLAWAHA
GENTRY
November 12, 2009, 09:15:20 AMSorry but I beg to differ on this topic. All things that are old are not historical. What is historical is what they were and not what they are today. Only a very few of the Jacksonville Historic Society list of historical structures downtown are of any actual historical significance.
Without getting into the definition of what a historical building is, it can be said that an underground walkway is not. Abandoned dilapidated warehouses are not. An old assembly plant is not. The office building with no architectural distinction at 218 W. Church Street is just that, an office building. Hogan's Creek should be repaired for functional reasons alone. If you want to be accosted or worse, then by all means, make Hogan's Creek aesthetically pleasing. Etc...
On the other hand there are several buildings in and around downtown that are being overlooked because they are not on somebody's agenda.
civil42806
November 12, 2009, 09:23:11 AMWithout getting into the definition of what a historical building is, it can be said that an underground walkway is not. Abandoned dilapidated warehouses are not. An old assembly plant is not. The office building with no architectural distinction at 218 W. Church Street is just that, an office building. Hogan's Creek should be repaired for functional reasons alone. If you want to be accosted or worse, then by all means, make Hogan's Creek aesthetically pleasing. Etc...
On the other hand there are several buildings in and around downtown that are being overlooked because they are not on somebody's agenda.
Oooooh you've done it now
JeffreyS
November 12, 2009, 09:25:57 AM218 is worth preserving IMO. Locally significant architect and I like it. I love the approach lets not discuss the definition of a historical building I will just tell you what's what.
stephendare
November 12, 2009, 09:33:23 AMum. I think the entire point of the historical movement is to celebrate what things were---not just what they are. To build in the best memories of where we come from socially and historically with new uses as we go forward.
One wonders what your definition of historic would be in the first place?
thelakelander
November 12, 2009, 09:48:11 AMSometimes, the effort to respond is not even worth it. For me, this is one of those times. Either you get it or you don't.
heights unknown
November 12, 2009, 09:59:22 AMSometimes, the effort to respond is not even worth it. For me, this is one of those times. Either you get it or you don't.
OUCH!!!!!!!
Heights Unknown
heights unknown
November 12, 2009, 10:02:29 AMWe've razed and torn asunder numerous jewels, diamonds and gold studs over the years which were historic gems not only downtown but around the City and County; it's got to stop, so, let's preserve what's left and not bulldoze and wreck ball every old structure for the sake of parking lots or because no one wants it right away. There are ways to save these structures.
Demolition, wrecking balls and bulldozers should be an absolute last resort and only if the structure is unsavable, in a condemnation mode, or a tremendous and new development which will greatly benefit that area and the city is due to be built in its place.
Heights Unknown
Dog Walker
November 12, 2009, 04:57:13 PMSome people rescue dogs and cats from shelters. Some people go to exclusive breeders to put down a deposit for the newest designer dog.
Personally, all of my dogs and cats are rescues and I have gotten enormous satisfaction from rehabilitating, re-purposing and rehabilitating old buildings. I have also gotten tremendous satisfaction from designing and building a new building in an industrial park.
What I would object too with all my might is having my rescue animals put down in order for someone to order a designer dog. So don't tear down a building with life left in it in order to put up a new one or a parking lot. Build your new building somewhere else and I will find a creative use for the old building left behind.
mtraininjax
November 12, 2009, 05:01:12 PMDog - both our our cats are strays, and we feed and love the rest in the neighborhood. My wife even tells me to slow down in a neighborhood, not my own, because someone's pet lives here and might be out in front of you.
I applaud Perdue and their efforts downtown, but from what I hear, it was a mess. Imaging a building that has not had AC operating for years, what that does to the walls and how technology has changed since they had tenants in there. They were without access to their data network for 10 days. I think I could not have made it!
GENTRY
November 16, 2009, 09:06:24 PMOne wonders what your definition of historic would be in the first place?
It would be nice to celebrate what was but that's not always going to be the reality. Where money is involved, history doesn't always matter. Talk to our prior city officials or any of the countless contractors who bailed on countless projects. I would love to see parts of downtown preserved and renovated but emotions aside, do you really think the abandoned Ford plant is historical? How about the subterranean walkway? If you or anyone does think so, I have a pet rock to sell you.
JeffreyS
November 16, 2009, 09:10:48 PMThe ford plant is certainly a big part of our history in light of the role it played in destroying our streetcar system.
You do not need to tell people in Jax that sometimes money causes historical buildings not to be preserved. We have seen the destruction more than we should.
GENTRY
November 16, 2009, 09:36:13 PMSometimes, the effort to respond is not even worth it. For me, this is one of those times. Either you get it or you don't.
Yes thelakelander, you're correct. You either get it or you don't. Apparently you don't. You've been around long enough and have been writing as long. You might need reminding of how many contractors and principals have approached the city over the last 25 years regarding restoring and/or renovating historical landmarks and buildings. How many times has the Ambassador Hotel been on the verge of being renovated only to have the project fall through the cracks? I know you know or have an idea.
How about the Trio as it's known? You have a clue how many contractors and principals have had great visions for these three buildings? You must know, you talk up a great storm.
Okay how about the Barnett National Bank building? Got any idea the amount of defunct projects it's gone through? I remember the day the clock went black over the building. How about you?
Let's see what you know about the Jones Bros. Furniture building or perhaps the Guaranty Trust and Savings Bank. Well okay we know the latter has a jaguar caged within it's walls. But do you care to take a guess how many deals have gone South regarding these buildings?
Shall I go on? Emotionally I would love to see many of these and other buildings and landmarks restored or renovated. But where you don't get it is when it comes to business and money the owners and contractors don't give a damn about emotion or history.
Yes I get it. Now I know you don't.
GENTRY
November 16, 2009, 09:48:44 PMYou do not need to tell people in Jax that sometimes money causes historical buildings not to be preserved. We have seen the destruction more than we should.
At least you understand that money is King. That's the language of politicians, contractors and owners. Emotions is the language of preservation societies. We who think of it emotionally don't have much to say when it pertains to what the wrecking ball will ravage.
What I don't understand is why people think fondly of a defunct Ford plant that, as you say, brought about the end of Jacksonville's streetcar days? What should we do with this empty giant? Have Ford open it again? Make it a huge night club? Perhaps one immense loft. The best anyone can hope for on this parcel of land is another industrial enterprise that might create some much needed jobs.
Like I've said here and other places. Some things are historical and some things are just old.
Mad Cowford
November 16, 2009, 09:53:48 PMIt's easy to be frustrated at plans falling through for restorations and new construction, but I don't understand the hostility at talking about restoration.
Here and around the country there have been plenty of "loving" restorations where owners and contractors cared about emotion and history as they restored their building.
I'd rather a defunct restoration project that leaves a building there for the next person than a defunct knock-it-down-to-replace it which leaves a vacant lot.
thelakelander
November 16, 2009, 11:25:16 PMSometimes, the effort to respond is not even worth it. For me, this is one of those times. Either you get it or you don't.
Yes thelakelander, you're correct. You either get it or you don't. Apparently you don't. You've been around long enough and have been writing as long. You might need reminding of how many contractors and principals have approached the city over the last 25 years regarding restoring and/or renovating historical landmarks and buildings. How many times has the Ambassador Hotel been on the verge of being renovated only to have the project fall through the cracks? I know you know or have an idea.
How about the Trio as it's known? You have a clue how many contractors and principals have had great visions for these three buildings? You must know, you talk up a great storm.
Okay how about the Barnett National Bank building? Got any idea the amount of defunct projects it's gone through? I remember the day the clock went black over the building. How about you?
Let's see what you know about the Jones Bros. Furniture building or perhaps the Guaranty Trust and Savings Bank. Well okay we know the latter has a jaguar caged within it's walls. But do you care to take a guess how many deals have gone South regarding these buildings?
Shall I go on? Emotionally I would love to see many of these and other buildings and landmarks restored or renovated. But where you don't get it is when it comes to business and money the owners and contractors don't give a damn about emotion or history.
Yes I get it. Now I know you don't.
I've been in the industry long enough to know that it takes some projects longer than others for renovation to happen. For many, it also takes a combination of local and federal grants and tax breaks to make preservation feasible. However, as long as they are structurally sound, just because some investment group's projects fall through is not enough reason to demo them, imo.
I've seen several highrise projects (I don't really consider the Ambassador "highrise") sit abandoned and in worse condition than the Ambassador, end up finally being renovated after decades of failed attempts. I've seen others that did not make it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so I'm not going to knock your belief but I'm not drinking your kool aid.
thelakelander
November 16, 2009, 11:36:18 PMThe history of the the Terrace Hotel's path to restoration sounds pretty similar to the path older buildings face in Jacksonville. The key will be to see if they can make it past the call for demolition by those who can't see the feasibility or reason to preserve them. Judging from the rest of country, some will make it, some won't. In Lakeland, the Terrace is one of the buildings that made it after years of calls for demolition and failed renovation attempts. Since 1999, its become a central anchor in DT Lakeland, which happens to be more vibrant than DT Jax now.
Finally, in 1996, Houston developer and Lakeland native Rob Scharar purchased the Terrace for $150,000 from the Lakeland Downtown Development Authority. His plan was to restore the Terrace to its former grandeur as a first class hotel. Nearly three years and $7 million later that dream was realized, as the beautifully restored Lakeland Terrace Hotel reopened on February 26, 1999.
http://www.lakelandgov.net/library/oldspeccoll/hotels/terrace.htm
thelakelander
November 16, 2009, 11:58:17 PMAbout 20 miles east of Lakeland, the old Palm Crest Hotel in Haines City followed a similar path. It sat empty for decades before being restored into college dorms for Landmark Baptist College in 1997.
With projects like this, you normally have to get creative in thinking about new uses. Not everything has to be an apartment, condo or office complex. Sometimes the numbers can work with mixed uses or uncommon uses (ex. the Palm Crest restoration in Haines City).
They also require public/private partnerships to make them feasible, unless they are located in vibrant areas of vibrant cities. For example, in the mid 1990s, Lakeland offered Publix a $1/year lease, for 20 years, for an abandoned JCPenney store in the heart of DT.
http://www.mesgc.com/publix-lakeland.php
The visionless soul would have questioned a deal like this. However, 15 years later, giving away a building to get some of Publix's headquarter to come to DT Lakeland led to that city swiftly turning around from an abandoned blighted vagrant magnet to a vibrant place with walkable streets lined by retailers, restaurants and bars (They also did the same thing for another company to move their headquarters into the core, in a former Burdines department store building). So the question really becomes, how important is a community's history to that community? Those that value their past, work extra hard and get creative to preserve as much of it as possible. Those that don't, only come up with excuses of why things won't work and fall in love with dynamite.
GENTRY
November 17, 2009, 12:44:06 PMSometimes, the effort to respond is not even worth it. For me, this is one of those times. Either you get it or you don't.
Yes thelakelander, you're correct. You either get it or you don't. Apparently you don't. You've been around long enough and have been writing as long. You might need reminding of how many contractors and principals have approached the city over the last 25 years regarding restoring and/or renovating historical landmarks and buildings. How many times has the Ambassador Hotel been on the verge of being renovated only to have the project fall through the cracks? I know you know or have an idea.
How about the Trio as it's known? You have a clue how many contractors and principals have had great visions for these three buildings? You must know, you talk up a great storm.
Okay how about the Barnett National Bank building? Got any idea the amount of defunct projects it's gone through? I remember the day the clock went black over the building. How about you?
Let's see what you know about the Jones Bros. Furniture building or perhaps the Guaranty Trust and Savings Bank. Well okay we know the latter has a jaguar caged within it's walls. But do you care to take a guess how many deals have gone South regarding these buildings?
Shall I go on? Emotionally I would love to see many of these and other buildings and landmarks restored or renovated. But where you don't get it is when it comes to business and money the owners and contractors don't give a damn about emotion or history.
Yes I get it. Now I know you don't.
I've been in the industry long enough to know that it takes some projects longer than others for renovation to happen. For many, it also takes a combination of local and federal grants and tax breaks to make preservation feasible. However, as long as they are structurally sound, just because some investment group's projects fall through is not enough reason to demo them, imo.
I've seen several highrise projects (I don't really consider the Ambassador "highrise") sit abandoned and in worse condition than the Ambassador, end up finally being renovated after decades of failed attempts. I've seen others that did not make it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so I'm not going to knock your belief but I'm not drinking your kool aid.
What industry have you been in, blogging? Read my other posts on urban issues and you "might" pick up on how the industry really works. Once again I'll tell you it would be nice to see many of the downtown historical buildings and landmarks restored/renovated but until greed isn't the driving factor, projects won't get the green light.
You don't quite understand that comparing other cities like Lakeland is irrelevant. Perhaps there's less corruption. Perhaps owners are not as greedy. Perhaps the city government is more willing to work with the principals involved. You obviously don't know the countless factors that are involved in getting these projects off and running. You just blog about it.
Sorry it's strictly water for me, no acid laced Kool-Aid. I'll leave the cloudy mind to bloggers who don't understand business.
stephendare
November 17, 2009, 12:47:46 PMLet me save other people the trouble here, gentry. your other posts on redevelopment are just as dumb.
Lake is an architect, developer and land planner. All of us have our own careers and experience in the field. Maybe you should read up about the people you are making assumptions around?
I dunno. But it seems like you would be making fewer absurd posts if you did.
thelakelander
November 17, 2009, 12:50:13 PMYes. However, if it really matters, I pay my bills through the architectural and planning industry. Over the years, I've done quite a few projects, ranging from historic restorations and manufacturing facilities to community planning, infill development, marinas and amusement park and even quite a few Jax strip malls. Now I'm taking a stab at integrating land use with transportation planning.
stephendare
November 17, 2009, 12:55:27 PMAnd since you are apparently either ignorant on the issues, or relying on other people to be ignorant. let me fill you in on the couple of buildings and projects that you mentioned.
The Schneider Family, a german investment group purchased the Laura Trio some years back hoping to flip the properties, which were still quite tenable. I think they purchased them from the old Corim Company a swiss firm. The buildings then entered a period of complete neglect. In 2000. Council President Matt Carlucci formed the historic preservation task force which several of us on this forum participated in.
In response, the Schneider family began a program of outright blackmail, threatening to demolish the three buildings unless the city purchased them immediately.
The city relented to the blackmail, purchased the Laura Trio, and then gave them to the Fire and Police Pension Fund in lieu of pension payments. The Pension Fund then flipped the properties over to Cameron Kuhn as part of his Salvation of Downtown development along Laura Street.
Kuhn, a victim as well as a master of the Real Estate Speculation Bubble lost everything in Jax.
None of the problems you are describing about 'failed grand plans' have anything to do with the Laura Trio. The Laura Trio remains undeveloped to this day because of speculation and greed, not because of the prohibitive cost of renovating the project.
stephendare
November 17, 2009, 01:00:07 PMThe Ambassador Hotel has been continuously owned by Sam Easton since you last stayed in the Hotel.
I know because I have had several discussions with Sanderson and Easton since then.
While Sam himself has thought of renovating the building, he decided that it might be more profitable to try and sell it during the Speculation bubble that ruined the economy. He didnt, and now if im not mistaken, Eddie Farah has the building and is planning on rolling out what amounts to a downtown real estate empire, and renovating the structure.
He is doing it with his nearly inexhaustible personal fortune, and obviously the numbers must make sense to him.
The real underlying problem on most of the real estate downtown, has always been the over evaluation of the property values in an unimproved state.
JoeMerchant
November 17, 2009, 01:18:05 PMWow, just wow.
JeffreyS
November 17, 2009, 01:22:49 PMIf Eddie Farah wants to renovate the Ambassador I would not bet against it being done.
Dog Walker
November 18, 2009, 09:07:18 AMEddie may be an ambulance chasing, TV lawyer, but he's OUR ambulance chasing, TV lawyer and we love him. Local boy made good!
TheProfessor
November 18, 2009, 09:45:23 AMEddie Farah needs to make up for knocking down the Lerner building.
JeffreyS
November 18, 2009, 09:47:57 AMThe Ambassador would more than compensate.