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Keith-N-Jax
May 28, 2009, 06:15:57 AMThis was a big mistake. The library already has a nice court yard to sit and read inside. No near by places to get anything to eat or drink. Why would one sit out there in the hot Florida sun. A walgreens or CVS with affordable condos or apts on top may have been a better idea. Once again the city doesnt listen they just do what they think is best. This really was built for the homeless.
fsu813
May 28, 2009, 06:36:08 AMthat park sucks. a wasted space.
thelakelander
May 28, 2009, 06:58:27 AMWhile a few would say get over it, I think the implementation of this park should serve as an example of what we don't want to do in the upcoming visioning process the Mayor recently proposed. We have a prime example of what can happen when you don't follow the 10 step program described by Project for Public Spaces ( March 6, 2007's "Greening of Main: A failure in the making?" article). You can create an "OK" project that looks good to drive by or we can strive for greatness by creating & enhancing spaces that draw pedestrians on a regular basis. In the past we've settled for "OK". The new visioning proposal gives us a chance for greatness.
When we address future public space improvements we really need to design spaces that have built-in uses to draw people on a regular basis. They also need to be designed to fully integrate with the uses surrounding them.
As for the Main Street park, I wonder what the plans are for the space in the future. A while back, it was mentioned it would become a sculpture park but has not happened as of yet.
tpot
May 28, 2009, 07:07:40 AMI drive by this location daily and everyday it is full of homeless waiting to get inside the library. NIce sight to see as you drive down Main Street into JAX..........
zoo
May 28, 2009, 08:04:15 AMtpot, that is exactly what all of the urbanists on this forum predicted what would happen. When leadership thinks they know more than those with training/experience in an area, is when plans go awry.
Project for Public Spaces is coming to Jacksonville to partner with a local company on a Springfield project. That's right, Springfield. Maybe some other important connections can happen while they are here...
copperfiend
May 28, 2009, 08:08:05 AMI think I saw the dance in your avatar being performed there.
fsujax
May 28, 2009, 08:08:58 AMThis park is a disaster. It is only used by the homeless, bums, vagrants.....whatever you prefer to call them. I pass it everyday on my way to work and think to myself what a wasted opportunity.
fatcat
May 28, 2009, 08:10:00 AMthe thing with public area being overrun by homeless is unavoidable if down town is loaded with homeless service. I do not understand why non-profit are exempt from property tax. With the property tax going up everyday, no body can afford to live in downtown except the homeless.
copperfiend
May 28, 2009, 08:20:37 AMAnd a big waste of money.
MrPajitnov
May 28, 2009, 08:36:37 AMProperty taxes are hardly going up, in fact my roommate (who is in school to be a teacher) and two friends of mine who are substitute teachers lost their jobs as a result of Christ's last round of property tax cuts.
but about the park, my friends and I tried to hang out and play frisbee there a couple of times at night, but the reason we stopped going there is because everyone walks their dog down there, lets it take a big dump, and they just leave it there. The grassy areas amount to little more than a big toilet for everyone's dogs. Add in the wandering bums that just wait for someone to harass for for "fitty cent" and it's pretty much worse off than all the moonscape parking lots in terms of accessability.
Deuce
May 28, 2009, 08:54:37 AMWe should spend a couple thousand more for a big sign that says:
Welcome to the Main Street Pocket Park!
"A park for bums to park their bum."
JoeMerchant
May 28, 2009, 08:56:08 AMThis has always upset me about many Jacksonville residents, their comfort with settling. The phrase "Its better than what was there" shouldn't be thrown around as often is it does, especially when what has been built is mediocre at best.
The only difference between the park and a parking lot is the grass.
thelakelander
May 28, 2009, 08:59:37 AM^and $700k. I would have went out there and laid sod myself for $100k.
TPC
May 28, 2009, 09:16:02 AMThey should have made it a skate plaza. It would have given kids and younger adults a place to legally skate downtown.
jagsfan32092
May 28, 2009, 09:30:49 AMI agree with the previous replies. EVERYTIME I drive by, it's filled with homeless. I don't know what could have gone there but this wasn't the answer.
hanjin1
May 28, 2009, 09:53:34 AMI don't know what you guys are talking about, but I usually see these fine examples of downtown citizens when I drive by.
Of course the last one is Hemming Plaza, but it's all the same
TheProfessor
May 28, 2009, 09:58:35 AMMaybe they can make it into a public garden and then in the future either sell the land to a developer or build a museum/municipal building there.
copperfiend
May 28, 2009, 09:59:37 AMAnd the grass looks litter-free.
Karl_Pilkington
May 28, 2009, 10:04:03 AMnope this city would rather arrest and prosecute skateboarders and coddle the vagrants. in this city's twisted logic its the skateboarders who are the problem the vagrants are just poor souls who need sympathy and handouts. they'll spend almost a million dollars on what is basically an outdoor homeless shelter and then go out and arrest the skate kids, effing ridiculous!
heights unknown
May 28, 2009, 10:32:00 AMI don't think it was built for the homeless, but it wasn't a good idea. This "pocket park" or whatever its called, is a by product of Jax's government administration not thinking, basically not thinking at all. How about a McDonald's in that spot? Or yeah, a small downtown CVS or Walgreens? Or even a 10 story residential/office complex or even an office skyscraper? Hemming Park is just a block or so away and that should signal that there is no need for a park a block away behind the library; it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
Heights Unknown
heights unknown
May 28, 2009, 10:34:03 AMOf course the last one is Hemming Plaza, but it's all the same
It's a given that the homeless will be there because that park was a mistake, so what else could it be used for? What bothers me is all the trash and litter strewn throughout that little park.
Heights Unknown
copperfiend
May 28, 2009, 10:44:38 AMNo joke. It is disgusting.
hanjin1
May 28, 2009, 10:47:29 AMI always wondered if that guy was trying to tan his stomach?
nestliving
May 28, 2009, 11:48:24 AMmy dogs quite like shitting there.
hightowerlover
May 28, 2009, 12:02:54 PMit would be a nice site to hold a tea party rally
heights unknown
May 28, 2009, 12:34:09 PMUmmm, I don't think so, he's African American and dark complexioned at that; not much tanning going on or will happen there (I don't think).
Heights Unknown
jaxlore
May 28, 2009, 02:01:33 PMwas just in detroit visiting an awesome pocket park, fountain, food and there is even small stage.
copperfiend
May 28, 2009, 02:02:48 PMLakelander posted some Detroit pics in the past.
thelakelander
May 28, 2009, 02:26:07 PMYou mean this Detroit park? We focused on this park as a successful example of how to create a great urban public space. If something like this can be built in Detroit, then there is no excuse for the same techniques not succeeding in Jacksonville. Unfortunately, no one listened. Hopefully, this time around, the process will be more open.
DetroitInJAX
May 28, 2009, 05:42:11 PMThats how we roll up north..
...welcome to last place, Jacksonville!
Anyway, I agree and have said for quite some time, all it is is the main street dog poop bum collector. The biggest lack of urban planning foresight since.. well... the wholesale dynamiting of downtown's historic building stock.
Dog Walker
May 28, 2009, 05:59:39 PMThe real irony of the "pocket park" is that it used to be the site of absolutely the best Italian restaurant in North Florida, Nicola's. Nicola Buano was a lawyer in Italy, but followed his American wife back to Jacksonville and turned his hobby into a fantastic restaurant in a location that had been an Italian restaurant and deli since the 1920's. Not fancy, tile floors and formica tables, but incredible, stunning food. At lunch, more city business got done there than in City Hall.
The building was torn down for, wait for it, a parking lot! Yes, the very parking lot that was sooo awful that they HAD to turn it into a, wait for it, parking lot for bums!!
Jacksonville urban planning at it's best.
zoo
May 29, 2009, 08:27:29 AMThe pics/rendering in Lake's last post are of Campus Martius in Detroit -- a Project for Public Spaces project. Here's what their web site says about it:
"'We wanted a place that was green and that was a center of activity for downtown,' he continues. 'But we didn't want a place that was tranquil and beautiful, but there was nothing to do.' Gregory says they hit on the idea of a lively town square by looking at examples like Rockefeller Center and Bryant Park in New York, and many European city squares.
'Over the last year, the park has delivered on its promise to be a gathering spot for everybody,' Gregory says with unmistakable pride in his voice. 'People call it 'beautiful' and say it looks like 'a real city.' It changes the image of Detroit in everyone's mind. They see the square on TV, hear about what's happening there and they see Detroit differently.'
Five hundred million dollars of new investment has flowed into the area since plans for Campus Martius were announced, including a new office building across the street, new retail shops, and loft developments in many of the area's old buildings. Most significantly, the Compuware computer firm moved its headquarters and 4000 employees from the suburbs to a new building near the square."
This is what the citizens of Jacksonville want -- a revitalized Downtown area. Our city can't get it right b/c politics gets in the way of leadership. This Mayor and this Council just aren't cut out for making smart decisions about it. They are penny-wise and pound foolish, and don't realize that a revitalized Downtown would be a boon for the entire region, including their own districts...
thelakelander
May 29, 2009, 08:31:53 AM^Great post. I love Gregory's comments:
and the results:
Five hundred million dollars of new investment has flowed into the area since plans for Campus Martius were announced, including a new office building across the street, new retail shops, and loft developments in many of the area's old buildings. Most significantly, the Compuware computer firm moved its headquarters and 4000 employees from the suburbs to a new building near the square."
This is the type of thinking that needs to go into every single public project in this city.
civil42806
May 29, 2009, 10:50:02 AMand the results:
Five hundred million dollars of new investment has flowed into the area since plans for Campus Martius were announced, including a new office building across the street, new retail shops, and loft developments in many of the area's old buildings. Most significantly, the Compuware computer firm moved its headquarters and 4000 employees from the suburbs to a new building near the square."
This is the type of thinking that needs to go into every single public project in this city.
I have a hard time taking seriously anything someone from detroit says, heres a different view of one of the fastest declining cities in America. I'm sure its a nice park but thats the least of there concerns.
http://www.detroityes.com/toc.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUQLMEwUz4
http://books.google.com/books?id=oVJJPfdZyhwC&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=detroit+belle+isle+corruption&source=bl&ots=z_Q5ddeBsZ&sig=i4Mr1bhBQwpyMVd6lmvVcx03CDU&hl=en&ei=6fUfSrLwCqKxtgf89uG3Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9#PPA161,M1
thelakelander
May 29, 2009, 11:04:25 AM^That just makes us look worse. Despite all their problems, they were successful at creating a well designed and well used public space. If we're seriously going to hold our noses up to a place like Detroit, we should be making public spaces that blow Campus Martius Park away. At this point, its evident we aren't. Anyone who says other wise is either wearing rose colored glasses or smoking some good stuff. So what's the fix?
Orlanta
May 31, 2009, 04:26:55 PMIts a common mistake in the sprawl dominated south. Everyone always wants more greenspace and more open space without understanding what actually works in those special public spaces in urban areas. The best way to activate a greenspace is whats around. It helps that the Detroit park has active uses within the park but I think its even more important that there is urbanism and active uses surrounding it.
thelakelander
May 31, 2009, 05:06:31 PMI agree, the success of an urban park probably has more to do with what's surrounding it, than what's actually in it. However, the Detroit park has taken advantage of both of these issues. With this said, it has also spurred infill development around it, which in turn has made the space more vibrant. Here are a few images of this space I took last Summer.
Campus Martius Park
existing development around the park
new infill development around the park
Compuware World Headquarters (2003)
One Kennedy Square (2006) & Cadillac Square Park (2007).
One Kennedy Square is the glass office tower in the background and Cadillac Square Park is a new linear park adjacent to Campus Martius.
Unlike Campus Martius Park, the Main Street park fails as a place that allows for a diverse amount of activities to take place in it and its surroundings are not well integrated. Addressing these issues will be critical in any public space improvement planned by the city. Speaking of which, despite the Mayor's plan to upgrade the site, Metropolitan Park/Kids Kampus will still recieve a big fat F-, when it comes to integrating that site with its surroundings. Too much focus has been placed on the parks and the idea of flex space than addressing the horrible asphalt lots surrounding it.
A Tale of Two Parks
A quick visual lesson on the Do's and Don't's of urban park planning.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-sep-a-tale-of-two-parks
(A photo comparison of Campus Martius Park & the Main Street pocket park)
jaxlore
June 02, 2009, 10:05:43 AMi'll say it again this is an amazing city park, clean as can be and not a homeless person in sight.To be fair over memorial day weekend it seemed a little under utilized, but i think everyone and there mother was at the tigers game or the demf festival and there were thousands at both. I have never heard a roar that loud out of any jax game it was something, and the fireworks they shot off for the baseball game put our 4th of July fireworks to shame.
Ethylene
June 02, 2009, 10:20:27 AMWhy oh why can't we have an Au Bon Pain! I fell in love with them years ago in Providence, RI. From their website, http://www.aubonpain.com/, there are franchise opportunities available and many locations in Miami. The Orlando airport is our nearest location. We would be more "international" if our airport had a restaurant with a French name!
Omarvelous09
June 02, 2009, 01:01:24 PMIn essence this was a good idea, but the final product is a mess...
I live in Springfield and go downtown a lot, especially to the library and MOCA. i usually take my 4 yo nephew with me, and i was hoping that upon the completion of the pocket park there would be some place for us to play and lay out after the library. Well...not so much. First and foremost there's very little shade, and its way too close to Main St. besides that its always full of guys hanging out drinking.
Good idea...bad location.
DetroitInJAX
June 12, 2009, 10:24:49 AMMy mother used to eat at that Au Bon Painful when she worked downtown at the Patrick McNamara Federal Building.... It's been held up at gunpoint more than once, unfortunately..
avonjax
June 12, 2009, 10:39:45 AMThe building was torn down for, wait for it, a parking lot! Yes, the very parking lot that was sooo awful that they HAD to turn it into a, wait for it, parking lot for bums!!
Jacksonville urban planning at it's best.
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The building was torn down for, wait for it, a parking lot! Yes, the very parking lot that was sooo awful that they HAD to turn it into a, wait for it, parking lot for bums!!
Jacksonville urban planning at it's best.
Sorry for this late post....
BUT I LOVED THAT PLACE.
I used to go there after school when I was in High School before going to work at Furchgott's...
Downtown was fun then......