1011 Peninsular Place
Date: 1917
Architect: Rutledge Holmes
Builder: Florida Engineering & Construction Co.
In 1891 a frame school house was built on this site. Wings and extensions were added until it became a large wooden box-like structure, constituting a dangerous fire hazard. It was replaced with this present building, which was constructed after Duval County voters passed a $1,000,000 bond issue in 1915 to build more than a dozen new brick school houses. This one was first known as Public School Number Four but later was renamed Annie Lytle School, after its former principal. It cost over $250,000 and originally overlooked Riverside Park, before the construction of I-95 isolated in in the 1950's. The dominant architectural feature of the school is a Neo-Classic pedimented portico supported by colossal Doric columns at the entrance. Ironically, this impressive portico is simply an ornamental attachment to the facade and has little relationship to the actual roofline. Other decorative features include a modillioned cornice that runs around the building.
Source: Jacksonville's Architectural Heritage Landmarks for the future by Wayne W. Wood.
Once gone, they are gone forever
If the Council's Land Use and Zoning Committee shortsightedly votes to completely destroy yet another piece of Jacksonville's dwindling history, the Annie Lytle will join this extensive collection of impressive structures that no longer exist.
Why is Historic Preservation Important?
Historic preservation is the practice of protecting and preserving sites, structures or districts which reflect elements of local or national cultural, social, economic, political, archaeological or architectural history. Preservation has many diverse purposes and rewards, including the strengthening of local economies, stabilization of property values, the fostering of civic beauty and community pride, and the appreciation of local and national history. Historic preservation is a public purpose that advances the education and welfare of citizens, while providing economic and aesthetic benefits as well.
Historic resources are defined as districts, sites, structures, objects or buildings that are greater than seventy-five years in age, and are significant in local, state or national history, architecture, archeology, engineering, or culture. History encompasses all cultures, economic classes, and social, political and private activities that form the background to the present.
What is a historic site or structure?
Historic resources fall into five categories or types: buildings, sites, structures, objects, or districts. A building is a construction created to shelter human activity, while structures are functional constructions usually created for purposes other than creating human shelter. A site is the location of a significant event, occupation or activity, while an object is primarily an artistic creation such as a sculpture, monument or statuary. A district is a collection of any or all of the above which is united historically or aesthetically.
What are the benefits of historic preservation?
The benefits of historic preservation come in many forms. The prime benefit of historical restoration is always education. It also includes both public and private benefits. Historic preservation safeguards a community's heritage, making it available to future generations for civic enjoyment and educational activities. Preservation stabilizes property values and strengthens local economies. In addition, the conservation and maintenance of historic resources and scenic areas fosters civic beauty and bolsters community pride. Finally, historic preservation has been successfully employed to improve business opportunities in many locales.
Lost Jacksonville
A century ago, Jacksonville was the center of a highly progressive architectural community. Over time, we have become a conservative community with little regard for the importance of architecture in our urban landscape. Here is a collection of images showcasing several significant structures that no longer exist in the downtown area. A few came down in fires; others were replaced by larger structures. Most were simply torn down and replaced with parking garages and surface lots. Hopefully, one day reminders showing what we have lost will provoke our community to work harder to save what's left.
City Hall - NW corner of Forsyth & Ocean (current site of Haydon Burns Library)
Palace Theatre - SW corner of Forsyth & Ocean (current site of metal parking deck)
National Bank of Jacksonville - NW corner of Forsyth & Laura (current site of Jacksonville Bank Building)
4. Masonic Temple - SE corner of Main & Monroe (current site of surface parking lot)
Looking east down Adams Street - Intersection of Adams & Julia
Photos of Lost Jacksonville
You can't recreate these type of historical structures. Once they're gone, they're gone forever. Jacksonville could have been as as popular and virbant as historic Savannah, Charleston and Boston. Instead a lack of overall vision and shortsightedness has resulted in the continued demolition of urban Jacksonville, one building at a time, leaving us with the blighted moonscape we enjoy today. This strategy is a proven failure and is disgraceful to the history and future of our community.
Empty surface parking lots on building foundations.
Unmaintained LaVilla parking lot where a building once stood.
Historic Downtown First Baptist Church being demolished by KBJ Architecture firm.
Lampru Apartments being demolished in Springfield.
The Lerner Shops being demolished at 118 Main St.
Is Annie Lytle next?
The demolition of Annie Lytle will come before the City Council's Land Use and Zoning committee today at 5 p.m. Let Council know how you feel on this subject in person or via email: cityc@coj.net
Article by Ennis Davis
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lindab
June 02, 2009, 07:33:30 AMGood article and should be a wake up call.
Why does Jacksonville have this failure of imagination regarding old structures?
I would like to propose that what our Historic Commission, a quasi-regulatory commission, needs is a good Marketing division. The Historic Commissoners do have the vision and the understanding needed to preserve vistas like the one of Adams Street in your article. What they don't have is a way to help these structures be marketed to buyers who will honor the past and fit it to a future use.
The city markets other resources. Preserved history should receive the same consideration.
nestliving
June 02, 2009, 07:41:00 AMBass St Lofts in Atlanta and Love Joy lofts in Washington DC we both old school houses similar that were turned into beautiful lofts. This building is perfect for a similar situation.
vicupstate
June 02, 2009, 08:04:41 AMWhat, if anything, does the developer plan with the site if it is cleared?
It should be saved, but this is Jacksonville, so I'm not too hopeful.
5PointsGuy
June 02, 2009, 08:12:54 AMUnfortunately its a bad location due to its proximity to I-95. As much as I think as it should be kept, I don't know how much interest there would be in restoring the building and turning it in to something with 95 there...
civil42806
June 02, 2009, 08:19:23 AMI'm sympathetic, but how long has this structure been vacant? 20- 30 -40 years? Has anyone expressed interest in the existing structure. Its a horrendous location, if someone just plans on demolishing it and leaving yet another vacant lot then I'm opposed to it, but if someone actually plans on utilizing the lot to build something usable, so be it.
thelakelander
June 02, 2009, 08:27:15 AMI don't think it gets any closer than this:
This is the Richmond, VA train station and I-95. Despite the expressway proximity this building is still a contributing factor to Richmond's urban core. In Florida, I imagine this place would have been taken down when the expressway was constructed.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=799518&page=3
Wacca Pilatka
June 02, 2009, 08:31:17 AMGreat analogy on Main St. Station in Richmond. It's a passenger train station that shut down in the 70s sometime, and after a failed attempt to convert it to an outlet mall, is once again an operating Amtrak station.
thelakelander
June 02, 2009, 08:35:13 AMTampa's Floridian Hotel had been vacant and abandoned since 1987. Now it is being renovated back into a boutique hotel.
Where there is a will, there's a way. However, this site does have some significant challenges to over come. My hope is that if the building can't be saved, at least the front facade is preserved, incorporated into a new structure and reconnected with Riverside Park.
vicupstate
June 02, 2009, 08:58:42 AMThere is a former elementary school in Washington DC that is of the same era. It also is right next to a major expressway. It might be a full 5-10 feet further from the higheway, but that's about it.
It has been converted into a health club and it is cool as hell. Being right next to a highway is not an issue at all for that use. In fact an advertising banner provides lots of cheap exposure to tens of thousands of commuters every day.
Get it together jacksonville, before it's too late.
vicupstate
June 02, 2009, 09:00:48 AMThis 1920's hotel in DT Greenville was vacant for about 12 years before being converted into a Westin.
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1255
JeffreyS
June 02, 2009, 09:05:16 AMWow they must have some really good use they want to put to use on the site to consider this. Of course in Jax really good use amounts to the chance to play with a wrecking ball.
Karl_Pilkington
June 02, 2009, 09:08:22 AMwhy is there even a Historical Preservation Commission? they don't do anything, are they just window dressing?
If Miami Beach had our historic preservation vision there wouldn't be any art deco district or lincoln road mall. I lived there when Miami Beach was old and rundown, lincoln road mall was mostly vagrants. There were plenty of developers who wanted nothing more than to just take a wrecking ball to the whole thing and start over, but the historic preservationists and the PEOPLE held firm and now they really have something to be proud of.
Deuce
June 02, 2009, 09:27:10 AMI tend to agree with this statement. The number of uses are limited for this building. The train station in Richmond works because of it's use and the size of the structure. A gym like the example in DC given would work well but there's no real need for another gym nearby. Maybe a Museum?
The Westin hotel in Greenville is awesome. They did a really great job of preserving historical elements. They've got some great restaurants too. I think is was abandoned for a lot longer than 12 years though. I don't remember anything ever being in that building.
Ocklawaha
June 02, 2009, 09:58:27 AMThis place was a wreck, I remember the City Council hearings to tear it down, the citizens nearly threatened to carry them out on a rail. The old Gal was saved, Hilton got involved and today she is the queen of the prairie states.
The Skirvin Hotel built in 1910 by oilman W.B. Skirvin, who was determined to have the finest hotel in the Southwest. Opening its doors in 1911, the plush hotel had two, 10-story towers containing 224 rooms, was one of the first buildings in Oklahoma City to have air conditioning, then called “iced air,” had running ice water in each room, a ballroom that seated 500, and imported Austrian chandeliers that cost more than $100,000 each.
Skirvin’s daughter, Perl Mesta, brought the hotel a national reputation by being the ambassadress to Luxembourg, and then Washington’s "Hostess with the Mostess," portrayed in the famed Broadway musical, "Call Me Madam."
In 1930, a third wing was added, raising the structure to 14 stories and increasing capacity to 525 rooms.
The Oklahoma showplace became a popular speak-easy during prohibition. It was during this time that W.B. Skirvin was said to have had an affair with one of the hotel maids. According to legend, the maid soon conceived and in order to prevent a scandal, she was locked in a room on the top floor of the hotel. The desolate girl soon grew depressed and even after the birth of her child; she was still not let out of the room. Half out of her mind, she finally grabbed the infant child and threw herself, along with the baby, out of the window.
The maid’s name remains unknown, but her ghost continues to haunt the Skirvin Hotel and she was nicknamed “Effie” by former employees.
Though the old hotel closed in 1988, former guests would often report not being able to obtain a decent nights sleep due to the consistent sounds of a child crying.
Effie was apparently a woman of loose morals and many men who have stayed in the hotel have often reported being propositioned by a female voice while alone in their rooms. Others have seen the figure of a naked woman with them while taking a shower. One man even claimed he was sexually assaulted by an invisible entity during his stay.
Other strange noises and occurrences were reported by staff and guests including things seemingly being moved around by themselves, such as the maid’s cart being pushed down the hall when no one was there.
In October, 1979 the hotel was listed on National Register of Historic Places. When it closed in 1988 the building stood empty for more almost fifteen years. However, the historic hotel has now been fully restored and now open once again for guests.
The $46.4 million project included the original exterior finish, installation of historically accurate windows, reconfigured guest rooms, new guest elevators, an elegant lobby, restaurants, and state-of-the-art meeting rooms. Wherever possible, historical elements such as moldings, tiles and ceiling treatments were incorporated into the design.
It will be interesting to see if Effie appears to new guest of the hotel.
The Skirvin Hotel is located at 1 Park Avenue in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
FIRST came vision
NEXT came salvation
VISION PEOPLE! VISION! SKYWAY, TOD, THEATER, STORES, FOOD, FUN, STREETCAR, BUS... VISION Damn Jax! VISION!
OCKLAWAHA
vicupstate
June 02, 2009, 10:17:35 AMA gym like the example in DC given would work well but there's no real need for another gym nearby. Maybe a Museum?
The Westin hotel in Greenville is awesome. They did a really great job of preserving historical elements. They've got some great restaurants too. I think is was abandoned for a lot longer than 12 years though. I don't remember anything ever being in that building.
The YMCA has looked at relocating before, and they could get a fortune for there current site since it fronts both the river and Riverside Ave. The current facility is very inefficient and is out of date. The Lytle location is close enough to the existing facility to serve the same clients.
The Lytle school could be expanded in the rear without changing it's appearance negatively, which could achieve any needed additional square footage. It could be uniquely historic and yet modern as well.
The Westin had been vacate from about '82-'86 until about 2000 or so. I went with the low end. It might have been empty as long as 18-20 years.
hightowerlover
June 02, 2009, 10:36:30 AMwhy dont you guys post those interior pictures again theres some great bones in there
matt a.
June 02, 2009, 10:54:06 AMhttp://duvaldestroyer.blogspot.com/2009/03/public-school-number-four-modest.html
Steve
June 02, 2009, 11:01:46 AMAnother option is if the building is just too inefficient, then I'm sure the exterior walls could be saved. This is something that has been done before in other cities where the economics of a true renovation just don't make sense.
lindab
June 02, 2009, 11:20:09 AMThe structure of the building is strong. It is built of concrete, even the roof. The exception was the auditorium roof which was wood and burned due to vandalism. The walls are almost two feet thick. Once inside the building, with good window and door replacements you would never hear the traffic.
Secondly, the property is open under the expressway to Riverside Park. There is no retention pond there. You can simply walk down that massive flight of stairs and straight thru to the park. What a great feature!
The rest of the property goes back on one side, along College Street, the whole length of the block.
Inside, the structure is an "E" shape with all the rooms facing a hallway which opens to the outside. Light pours into the interior structure from this configuration. It was well made and well designed.
quote author=Ocklawaha
VISION PEOPLE! VISION! SKYWAY, TOD, THEATER, STORES, FOOD, FUN, STREETCAR, BUS... VISION Damn Jax! VISION!
lindab
June 02, 2009, 11:29:59 AMI want to point out to anyone thinking the Jacksonville Historic Commission are the bad guys here, they voted to preserve the building. But they can be overruled by the council.
stephendare
June 02, 2009, 11:30:51 AMThanks Lindab.
That does clear it up.
Is there going to be a crowd of people at today's LUZ committee meeting?
stephendare
June 02, 2009, 11:32:14 AMDidnt Carlton have a hand in completely destroying LaVilla?
I cant remember, but it seems like he was involved in all of that.
stephendare
June 02, 2009, 11:39:55 AMHere is what I found on Urban Planet. Its an article from the Times Union May 11, 2004
The Times-Union
Plans to build $180,000 town homes in Jacksonville's LaVilla neighborhood are now heading back to the City Council, just six months after the council denied the project.
City Hall attorneys, though, have been asked to check if the proposal is coming back six months too soon.
The council in November voted 14-5 against the 32-unit project planned for two blocks off Jefferson Street between Union and Beaver streets.
Council rules require developers and others who have a bill voted down to wait at least a year before bringing it back, unless there's a "substantial change." The nearly $6 million project no longer asks for a $320,000 city grant, which developer Carlton Jones says is enough of a change.
But Councilman Reggie Fullwood, who represents the area and does not support the project, says the location and unit prices are the same, which Fullwood says is why the council voted it down in the first place.
"That hasn't changed, so I think they're going to have a challenge, if it can even be heard now," Fullwood said.
The bill will be introduced tonight and, if city attorneys allow it to be discussed in coming weeks, the earliest it could come for a vote would be next month.
The initial defeat of the bill included a struggle between Fullwood and the developers, Jones and partner Richard Danford. Danford filed a police report against Fullwood after Danford said Fullwood threatened him following a committee meeting.
Fullwood denies the allegation and no charges were filed.
The project is now back at the request of Councilwoman Glorious Johnson. Jones said Johnson approached him about trying the project again. Johnson did not return several messages seeking comment.
With the grant now off the table, the only public dollars sought would be a $200,000 affordable housing loan to build two models.
The deal does, however, include the city selling the land for $455,532 -- $4 per square foot and about half what the city paid to buy and clear the land. In November, some council members took issue with the price of the land, especially because the site is just a few blocks from the new Duval County Courthouse, scheduled to open in 2007.
"In that area, with the courthouse coming, I don't see a need to give that land away," said Councilman Jerry Holland, who voted against the project in November.
Councilman Warren Alvarez, who voted for the project last fall, said he'd want to take another look at the land cost.
Jones said he is only trying to bring a dimension to downtown housing that doesn't exist now. There is a market for the town homes, he said, and they would complement the high-end condos and market rate apartments now available as the downtown housing market warms up.
Jones called the November decision "emotional" and said he thinks if the project is judged solely on its merits, it will be approved.
Plans were originally filed in early 2003, but hearings were frequently delayed. During the delays, Jones and Fullwood traded terse letters, with both accusing the other of making the matter personal.
Though the plan passed three committees before Danford filed the police report, the proposal was turned down by the full council.
"I don't think it [vote] had a whole lot to do with the project," Jones said.
Danford, who is president of the Jacksonville Urban League, is still a partner in the project, but Jones said Danford will remain in the background if the proposal is heard again.
stephendare
June 02, 2009, 11:41:48 AMhttp://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/120403/opi_14207489.shtml
The Jacksonville City Council made a decision recently that was not only wrong-headed but unusual enough to be disconcerting.
It concerned a proposal to provide housing in LaVilla. The proposal was praised and approved by the Downtown Development Authority, Jacksonville Economic Development Commission and three council committees.
Then the council turned it down, 14-5.
LaVilla is something less than a triumph of the art of planning. In the River City Renaissance, there was to be a recreation complex, with baseball fields, after the dilapidated houses were removed.
Instead, it has emerged as a hodge-podge, with a mixture of uses set not by market demand but by the local government.
One thing could knit it together: housing. No one lives there anymore. But 32 attractive, affordable townhomes would have occupied the two blocks bounded by Union, Davis, Beaver and Jefferson streets, as planned by Richard Danford and Carlton Jones in response to a request for a proposal by the city in 2001.
With a school, restaurant, credit union and the Ritz Theatre in the neighborhood already, only housing is needed to make LaVilla a neighborhood again.
The project, unlike others that have relied heavily on city incentives, virtually paid for itself. For arcane budget reasons, the city was going to give $320,000 of the proceeds of the sale to the developers to put sidewalks around the block, normally a city function.
The developers proposed paying $4 a square foot for the land, which is the price city officials had set in a previous offer to a potential buyer.
The block is in the district of Councilman Reggie Fullwood, who contended that the homes were not affordable. But, $180,000 homes are affordable, according to government guidelines. LaVilla certainly isn't going to attract growth and more residents with public housing, or low-income, future slums.
The council should vote for an issue on the merits -- and this proposal had ample merit.
stephendare
June 02, 2009, 11:45:08 AMI remembered Carlton talking about these projects during the Historic Preservation Task Force meetings under Council President Carlucci. But by the time the fallout occurred, I was already full time operating at Boomtown, Eden and The Carter Art Lofts over in Springfield.
It seems like Carlton got screwed in a deal to let him have cheap land in return for 180k condos being built in La Villa.
But it also seems like they must have demolished the entire neighborhood in anticipation of development that wasnt grounded in reality.
The same thing that happened to Riverside Avenue and Brooklyn, most likely.
Wonder if the same dynamics are in play at School Number Four?
stephendare
June 02, 2009, 11:51:46 AMAnd here is one of the earlier articles regarding the project.
Lake, was LaVilla still standing at this time? (<-----too lazy to look up the demolition dates)
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/011803/bus_11506016.shtml
Grant for town house complex sought
By Earl Daniels
Times-Union business writer
A local development team has plans to build the first residential development in LaVilla in over 50 years.
LaVilla Square Associates LLC of Jacksonville is seeking a $320,000 grant from the Downtown Development Authority for site improvements on two blocks in LaVilla to build 34 town houses that will be priced at an average of about $180,000. Each town house will be 1,834 square feet.
The developer plans to use the grant to install historic lighting and sidewalks at the proposed $6.2 million town house complex.
Members of the Downtown Development Authority are expected to vote Wednesday on the grant request in addition to the city selling the developer two blocks of land at $4 a square foot, totalling $455,532. The town house proposal was submitted in response to a July 2001 city request for proposals from developers to redevelop LaVilla property.
"There is room in the market for this kind of housing product," said Al Battle, managing director of the Downtown Development Authority. "This shows that the success at the Park at the Cathedral can be translated into other housing developments in other parts of downtown," Battle said.
LaVilla Square Associates' development team consists of developer Carlton Jones and Jacksonville Urban League President Richard Danford, who are managing directors of the proposed development.
Jones said construction on the town houses would start in July and take about four months to build the first few units, if the city approves the request. The units will be an alternative to the area's rentals and low-income housing.
"We are real excited about the possibility of bringing for-sale housing back into the LaVilla area," he said. "There has been not market-rate housing in LaVilla for some time."
The LaVilla town house development would be the first residential real estate component in area. Most of the area's rebirth has been the construction of office buildings and the LaVilla School of the Arts. Also, officials of the Shiloh Metropolitan Baptist Church on Beaver Street completed the construction of and opened a 5,000-seat sanctuary in May 2002. The church's effort has improved LaVilla's appearance on the west end that neighborhood.
LaVilla is 770 acres north and west of the central downtown business district. LaVilla was an African-American community of houses and entertainment venues in the early 1900s. But over time, the neighborhood fell into disrepair and eventually the houses were torn down. About 10 years ago, city officials decided to encourage redevelopment in the area by providing incentives to developers who would rebuild on vacant land or where old houses stood.
"Now, there will be home ownership in an area where the housing stock was lost," Battle said.
The town houses will be built on land across the street and north of the LaVilla school.
The development will be the third downtown town house project.
"This could be the beginning of a trend, but a trend that will take a long time to develop," said Ray Rodriguez, owner of the Real Estate Strategy Center of North Florida Inc. in Jacksonville.
Rodriguez said the overall perception of downtown is that it is not yet a "glamorous place to live."
"Some people still view downtown as a place with commercial development," Rodriguez said. "They see it is as a good place to visit, but not to live," he said.
stephendare
June 02, 2009, 12:18:41 PMA photo of Milne and Jones, the owners of the building
thelakelander
June 02, 2009, 12:40:18 PMLaVilla was long gone by the time this project showed up (destroyed a decade earlier). The Jones LaVilla townhouse project should have been built. $180k for 3bd/2ba new townhome units in 2004 were pretty reasonable, imo.
TheProfessor
June 02, 2009, 12:41:52 PMAccording to below website, the below people are on the LUZ comtittee wich will be making the decision. Please e-mail them your thoughts.
ArtG@coj.net; Joost@coj.net; RBrown@coj.net; Gaffney@coj.net; Holt@coj.net; Redman@coj.net; Webb@coj.net
http://www.coj.net/City+Council/LUZ.htm
stephendare
June 02, 2009, 12:42:59 PMI was out of town from 92 to 00. Any idea when the neighborhood was levelled?
heights unknown
June 02, 2009, 12:45:16 PMJust think if Hotel George Washington, Mayflower Hotel, the old building where BOA now stands had been saved; at least the building where BOA now sits was demolished in favor of an almost SUPERTALL. But numerous buildings in Jax could have been saved, remodeled or reconstructed, and would have served the urban core much better than the empty lots and parking lots that are now there.
thelakelander
June 02, 2009, 12:52:19 PMThe mid 1990's, around 1996.
Downtown Frankenstein: LaVilla Style
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2006-nov-downtown-frankenstein-lavilla-style
stephendare
June 02, 2009, 12:53:43 PMArtG@coj.net; Joost@coj.net; RBrown@coj.net; Gaffney@coj.net; Holt@coj.net; Redman@coj.net; Webb@coj.net
http://www.coj.net/City+Council/LUZ.htm
my god.
zoo
June 02, 2009, 03:00:29 PMAnyone who thinks that the location is bad, and no one would be interested in it b/c it is right next to I-95, must be from Jacksonville...
grimss
June 02, 2009, 05:59:44 PMLUZ sent it back to the JHPC to consider all available evidence and options. From what I gleaned at the meeting, the developer wasn't the one pushing the LUZ review--it was, as some have suggested, the result of the new council president's effort to get unresolved issues off the docket. So . . . back into a holding pattern.
Omarvelous09
June 03, 2009, 06:27:58 PMAlways have loved this building...but honestly with the highway so close to the building i don't know how well it would do as a residential building. Ive always thought it would make a great amphitheater, if they could bring the facade to the park side and open the building...but we don't do things like that in jax.
stjr
June 03, 2009, 06:52:20 PMI repeat that it might may a great tourist and convention bureau center and could house related groups such as the hotel association, Sports Authority, etc. that are connected to bringing tourists to Jax. Also, RAM and RAP.
This building is well accessed and located by I-95, I-10, and the future multi modal station a few blocks away at Park and Bay Streets.
Being located next to the interstate is an asset due to its very high visibility. Companies would pay a pretty penny for exposure like this. It needs to be EXPLOITED, NOT EXPLODED!
JaxNative68
June 04, 2009, 03:57:15 PMOnce again it comes down to the almighty dollar. The interior of this building has been exposed to the elements for over thirty plus years. I remember seeing the inside of it at least twenty plus years ago. The roof was completely shot then. Water has been pouring into this building for decades, rotting the structure. Not to mention how much fecal waste is throughout the interior, both animal and human. The amount of money it would take to bring this building back to life is probably about 2+ times more than building new. No developer I have met in Jacksonville is willing to undertake that kind of expense. I'm not saying don't save it. I'm just saying don't leave it up to the developers. The city needs to undertake the saving of this building. Put it on the national register of historic places. Utilize the federal grant money out there that is allocated to registered historic structures. Raise it from the dead and turn it into a City of Jacksonville office building or some other type of public building, possibly a cultural arts center (we all know Jacksonville needs a little culture).
The Savannah College of Art and Design has saved many building just like this one, even ones in worst shape, and turned them into beautiful, vibrate places of human interaction. I think the City of Jacksonville owes PS#4 a little respect and revitalization.
lindab
June 04, 2009, 04:24:41 PMIt is on the National Register.
vicupstate
June 04, 2009, 04:30:55 PMIf the buildings condition is that bad, the PRICE should reflect that. The same owners have owned if for most of the period you are talking about. If they had preserved the roof, they would not be in the situation they are in now. They shouldn't just be allowed to demo by neglect the building.
Also, are you are referring to the roof of the entire structure or the auditorium? The Auditorium roof was wood, and the remainder concrete, according to someone 's post.
lindab
June 04, 2009, 04:34:03 PMOops, my mistake. It is listed as a local historic designation not national. This gives the JHPC jurisdiction over it.
JaxNative68
June 04, 2009, 04:58:09 PMWhich means in the end that City Hall has the final and ultimate jurisdiction over it. Unfortunately, I’m sure the city will come by in the dark of night and remove the building before any real protests can happen. It seems to be their MO. And somehow they alway get away with it. It's amazing what a little greased palm can get done.
cracklow
June 08, 2009, 01:20:20 AMso... what happened in the meeting?
lindab
June 08, 2009, 09:39:29 AMTook about 8 minutes. Chairman LUZ spoke, city attorney spoke, exec director RAP spoke (send to JHPC with all evidence/options) , RAP board member spoke agreement. No opposition from anyone to sending back to Historic Commission for consideration.
Deuce
June 08, 2009, 09:42:14 AMAt least it's safe for a little longer.
Rockinvox
June 08, 2009, 09:57:57 PMI agree with the person who remarked about needing a marketing division regarding the preservation of our historic landmarks. I am Jax native born & raised in San Marco. My Grandmother is one of the founders of the San Marco Preservation Society. I have seen so many buildings and other landmarks demolished in the name of "advancement" and some them are still vacant lots. It's a shame and I would really like to see more of what made this town remain a part of this town.
lindab
June 09, 2009, 07:54:44 AMThank you. It does make sense.
mtraininjax
June 17, 2009, 11:45:31 PMUse it or Lose it. Bulldoze it if it sits and adds to crime in the area. Brunswich just added 100 homes to its list of demolition because the owners did nothing to enhance the buildings or rent them out. PS 4 is a nice building, but its owners are idiots. Give then 180 days to find a tenant and a CONTRACT that is binding, or bulldoze it.
vicupstate
June 18, 2009, 05:38:13 AMWhy should the taxpayers be stuck with the bill instaed of the owner?
I guess that is why Brunswick isn't Savannah. Brunswick, isn't that the town with the paper mill at the entrance? Figures I guess.
vicupstate
June 18, 2009, 05:39:46 AMBTW, using that logic (if it can be called that), Mount Vernon would have been demolished decades ago.
mtraininjax
July 01, 2009, 04:25:25 PMFrom the Daily Record today - Geez - Doesn't anyone else read it?
by Mike Sharkey
Staff Writer
The on-again-off-again redevelopment of the former Annie B. Lytle Elementary School in Brooklyn is back on.
Developer Carlton Jones plans to turn the building into 33 residential housing units for senior citizens 55 years old and up. Jones, president of Renaissance Development Group, wants to add on to the building and create another 100 units.
Over the years, several factors have delayed the project including the economy, the Fuller Warren overpass project, financing, the historic designation of the building and legislation working its way through City Council at a snail’s pace.
Recently, Doug Milne, an attorney and a trustee for Foundation Holding IV which oversees the property, successfully saved the legislation surrounding the project from extinction for at least a year.
“About six months ago City Council passed a new rule that says any legislation that has been essentially dormant for a certain period of time will be withdrawn unless action is taken,” explained Milne. “Two to three years ago, we asked for permission to dismantle the building. The thinking was, if we can’t make something work — and no one can — we may as well dismantle it.”
According to Milne, the City Council Land Use & Zoning committee agreed to allow the demolition of the building. However, the building had also been designated a historic land- mark by the Jacksonville Historic Preservation Commission, making demolition nearly impossible.
“It got to be so controversial, I said, let’s just slow down,” said Milne.
Recently, Milne and Jones met with the Preservation Commission to talk about the building — specifically ways to finance the residential project. Both liked what they heard.
“The type of financing we are seeking is not a problem,” said Jones, whose company doesn’t technically own the building. He has a contract to purchase it from the Ida M. Stevens Foundation, which purchased the building almost 30 years ago. “The finances are readily available for independent living. We have a potential lender and we have done some underwriting.”
Milne said there was some urgency to show progress on the project. He said he got a letter from the City’s Office of General Counsel warning him that if progress wasn’t made in some capacity, the legislation would be dropped from the Council agenda for at least one year. Milne said he met with both the OGC and the Historic Preservation Commission.
“Everybody is satisfied,” he said. “It (the June 22 meeting with the Historic Preservation Commission) went very positively and they have some great ideas about financing incentives through ad valorem taxes and tax credit opportunities. They have a lot to offer.”
Jones said ideally the renovations could start in about nine months.
“Then, it’s about an 18-month process,” said Jones. “The site is so tight, we would use precast (forms). We could have the new building erected in one to two weeks. The interior would take about six months.”
Jones was also complimentary of the work done by Milne.
“Doug should be commended for keeping things intact,” said Jones. “It could have been torn down long ago.”
thelakelander
July 01, 2009, 05:48:25 PMSounds good. Lets hope it pans out.
lindab
July 01, 2009, 06:03:07 PMI say let's keep close watch. Carlton Jones recently advocated demolition of two historic buildings on Margaret Street. He is recommending a pretty quick schedule for work considering keeping the historic building intact.
mtraininjax
July 01, 2009, 06:06:43 PMMr. Jones is listed as one of the contractors for the Gateway Mall, very generous in his campaign contibutions as well. If anything happens here, I would want to make sure its all private funding.
vicupstate
July 01, 2009, 06:32:49 PMFrom the sounds of it, it would be public and private. Anticipated tax revenues from the post-completed project would be returned to the developer AND/OR the renovation expenses would qualify as a credit against property taxes, if I am reading this correctly.
Sounds good to me. The city should do more of that kind of thing. Let's keep our fingers crossed that this pans out.
Charles Hunter
July 01, 2009, 10:30:24 PMCan some explain this to me? "have the new building erected in a couple weeks"?? What NEW building? He's not talking about the interior of the existing PS4, that is the "six months" in the next sentence.
thelakelander
July 01, 2009, 10:55:54 PMThey are proposing to build a new building behind the school in addition to it's reuse.
Dog Walker
July 02, 2009, 11:29:15 AMThe property and the school are actually owned by two different corporate entities and the property is much larger than it looks. It actually runs down College St. all the way to Rosselle St. behind Hughes Automotive and the A/C supply company. There is plenty of room for another building, parking, etc.
The property is owned by Peninsular Brooklyn, LLC a for-profit company, not by the Ida Stevens Foundation as the news stories have stated. The school is owned by Foundation Holdings IV, a non-profit company.
Neither Jones nor Milne can be trusted to be accurate about their motivations or their plans. Let's hope this time they are being truthful and that their plans work out. My fear is that this talk of a plan coming soon is just another smoke screen to get them out of spending any money to secure and stabilize the building. The delaying tactics and vague promises have served Milne well for over twenty years in this regard.
This property and building, under any new use, could become the first step in a renewed Brooklyn. Milne secured an easement from the FDOT as part of the deal to take some additional property for the expressway expansion. The easement runs UNDER the whole Interstate at ground level to Riverside Park, reconnecting the school building to the park and providing pedestrian access to Five Points and Riverside. Think of the possibilities!
The park was the playground for the school until the construction of the Fuller Warren Bridge in the '50's cut off the access. The Fuller Warren Bridge, while it was being constructed, was known as the Gilmore Street Bridge. The original address of the school was 1011 Gilmore St.
ChriswUfGator
July 16, 2009, 08:25:53 AM+1
This is the same guy who as recently as 3 or 4 months ago was caught applying to demolish the original Riverside clinic along with 2 historic houses, in order to build a CVS. From what I heard through the grapevine, RAP put a stop to that one rather quickly.
He seems to be an OK guy, but I hope he comes to have more respect for the historic fabric of the neighborhood than he has displayed of late. If he wants to just knock everything down and replace it with cooker-cutter prefab concrete, then he should go over to the southside and do it...they love that stuff over there.
lindab
July 16, 2009, 10:19:56 AMAmen!