Does Downtown Need Parking Meters?
Each year, Downtown vision conducts a survey of downtown business and property owners of things that can be improved in our center city. Consistently, parking ranks as one of the top concerns of stakeholders. Despite the fact that DVI has been in existence for eight years, nothing has been done to improve the situation.
Published September 19, 2008 in Opinion
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In fact, if Bob Carle, the City's Public Parking Division Chief gets his way, the parking situation will get dramatically WORSE (if you didn't hear his visionless proposal that he was bouncing around the City Council, click HERE ). Basically, he wants to enforce Parking Meters 24 x 7, meaning you can get a ticket on Tuesday night at 9PM when there isn't a car in sight for blocks.
It is staggering to comprehend how on one hand, we have a JEDC which has been tasked with making downtown a friendly place for visitors, and on the other, we have Parking Enforcement that wants to make sure that visitors never return to the smoldering remains of downtown. Shouldn't they be working together towards a common goal?
As they are, the parking meters serve no purpose whatsoever, other than to generate revenue for the city. The city claims that the meters keep time limits enforceable. However, this is a garbage excuse - San Marco, Five Points, and The Shoppes of Avondale, all have time limits for parking (with a sign that says "2 Hour Parking"), none have meters, all are thriving.
Free on street parking in Downtown Greenville, SC.
I'm not saying that time enforcement isn't necessary - it is, particularly on the busier streets like Laura and Adams. Otherwise, the early bird office workers would get there, take the spots, and keep their car there all day. We need to have time enforcement, however we need to have time enforcement that makes sense. Two to three hour enforced time limits will work fine - 2 hours on the more populated streets, 3 on the less populated, and perhaps none on the "Ghost Town" streets, like Davis and Madison.
What do you think? Is this something they you think will work or not? Let us know below.
Article by Steve Congro
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archiphreak
September 19, 2008, 08:37:11 AMOf course it will work. And for that very reason City Council will never approve it. Anything that makes good logical sense will never fly in this city. It's a plain and simple truth that we must all get used to until by some freak of nature the entire governing body of Jacksonville comes down with dementia and must be committed for their own safety. Then we, the next generation, can silently slip into power and start affecting real change for the betterment of our city and our citizens. A pipe dream I know.
xian1118
September 19, 2008, 08:47:47 AMso what exactly is the barrier to opening up downtown to free parking (besides Bob Carle, who appears to be the poster child for self-serving city officials)? I think the signs would do just fine.
Not too long ago I was downtown for the DVI meeting on parking downtown, when I received a ticket - for a meter that had expired for maybe 5 minutes before I arrived. errrrgggg
JeffreyS
September 19, 2008, 09:39:29 AMWhere do DVI, JEDC, and FMPO stand on the meter issue?
Doctor_K
September 19, 2008, 10:02:21 AM^ Great question. However, are their stances even relevant when stacked up against the wishes Bob Carle and his ilk?
Jason
September 19, 2008, 10:28:52 AMWithout the revenue from the meters, how does the city fund parking enforcement? Even the signs will require some enforcement.
Other than that, I believe parking on the street should be free. I've taken risks when I didn't have change but I'm one of the lucky few that haven't gotten a ticket.
GideonGlib
September 19, 2008, 11:27:42 AMAs a former Downtown resident that did not live in a space with a parking garage, it would make sense to me to be able to get downtown resident parking permits/decals that would allow 24/7 street parking to make Downtown a more attractive place to live. The hassle of feeding meters every time you wanted to unload groceries or were working on a task that would take more than a few hours was unbelievable, Downtown residents being able to bypass that would make the city a much more attractive place to live.
Jason
September 19, 2008, 01:07:54 PMNice idea.
Midway
September 19, 2008, 07:21:30 PMIf you add up all of the revenue from the parking meters and then come up with a total for all of the expenses directly and indirectly related to the parking meters, it would probably disclose a net loss. The parking meters are there to maintain customers in the surface parking lots by creating an artificial demand for that service.
This is a fine example of how "industry" (to call parking an industry is a laughable contortion of that word) lobbyists can have a stunningly negative impact on a city when their desires are at cross purposes with rational development imperatives, and the city administration gives them everything they ask for.
Ocklawaha
September 19, 2008, 10:43:11 PMFree limited parking along the city streets would certainly help the business community, restaurants and entertainment should flurish. Parking without transit or transit without parking isn't going to work. We need to calculate in our transit usage, what it could be, where it stands to gain, and how parking, lack of parking, excess of parking etc... could play a major part in reshaping downtown. While congestion pricing probably won't work on a large scale in Jacksonville, it is possible that the municipal garages (and transit taxes on private facilities) could more then compansate for any profit from the parking division. So we'd have free on street parking, limited private lots, and massive private and public parking garages. Next focus our parking garages on mass transit - built in bus boarding, curbside electronic docking, real time information, shelter, as well as some retail and food establishments in each public garage. Where possible, they should be tied into the Skyway, and future Streetcars, or even commuter rail.
Parking poetry?
Look what's happening out in the streets
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Hey I'm dancing down the streets
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Ain't it amazing all the people I meet
Got a revolution Got to revolution
One generation got old
One generation got soul
This generation got no destination to hold
Pick up the cry
Hey now it's time for you and me
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Come on now we're marching to the sea
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Who will take it from you
We will and who are we
We are volunteers of America
OCKLAWAHA
GatorDone
September 19, 2008, 11:07:46 PMIf nothing else, could we class up the place a little bit and modernize the meters such as those in Savannah where there is 1 machine every so far and you pay then put receipt in you window?
downtownjag
September 20, 2008, 01:57:31 PMAs a downtown resident, I have personally blasted every official for the city I can think of about this issue. I spend plenty of time telling people how great it is here which is all in vain when they come out to their car and there is green ticket on it. The two parking patrolmen, who are just doing their jobs, post up out front of our building just before eight every morning and wait till the clock strikes eight to start ticketing. I know, or at least believe, that DVI is against parking meters as it disrupts everything they are working hard to accomplish. And without throwing too much mud, a quick google of Bob will show you just how qualified he is to be calling the shots with something as influencial as parking.
ProjectMaximus
September 20, 2008, 08:47:20 PMhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080920/ap_on_re_us/less_parking
thelakelander
September 20, 2008, 08:56:28 PMGreat find. This is an issue that Jacksonville needs to address.
Milwaukee, one of a small group of cities that has eased minimum parking requirements, did so because they were impeding redevelopment of struggling neighborhoods, said John Norquist, the city's mayor from 1988 to 2004.
Norquist, who today heads the Chicago-based Congress for the New Urbanism, described a lot that sat vacant for decades after a historic building burned down. The required parking made it unfeasible to build anything new there, he said. After officials relaxed the parking requirement, a thriving restaurant sprang up.
Some cities have switched directions altogether, replacing the minimum requirement with a cap on the maximum allowable number of parking spaces. London and San Francisco began making the shift decades ago. San Francisco is currently considering extending the new approach to more neighborhoods.
I love this idea. I would like to see this happen with parking spaces and front building setbacks.
WhatsUpJacksonville
September 22, 2008, 01:22:32 PMIt seems that a good compromise for both parties would be to allow the infrastructure of the meters to stay, but make the meters free. It would be only a slight change from the current system. This would allow a person to park for free, but also keep them mindful of the time they have stayed in a spot.
-Anthony
WhatsUpJacksonville.com
stephendare
September 22, 2008, 01:25:17 PM? Whats up with Bob?
RiversideGator
September 22, 2008, 05:35:24 PMI especially like the meter on Monroe Street which gives you 15 minutes per quarter (instead of the stated 30 minutes). Of course there is the meter on Bay Street which always shows time available. I guess the City giveth and the City taketh away.
Lunican
September 22, 2008, 05:45:46 PMI like the parking meters in front of a fire hydrant.
downtownjag
September 22, 2008, 09:19:14 PM? Whats up with Bob?
Bob Carle is credited with the idea of extending the parking restrictions. Everyone here is very aware how that affects the downtown businesses and I believe that those decisions should be left to someone with some degree in urban planning, which he doesn't have. I hate to seem so negative towards someone I haven't met, because chances are he is a nice guy. Unfortunately, his ideas would make me and a lot of other people out of luck.
downtownjag
September 22, 2008, 09:23:35 PM-Anthony
WhatsUpJacksonville.com
Are there any towns that do that?
civil42806
September 22, 2008, 10:08:20 PMHey its win win as far as the city goes, if you park and don't feed the meter you get a ticket and if you do feed the meter you get a ticket. Expect the city to start putting fake fire hydrants all over town. But seriously why in the world would you enforce the meters after 5 and on weekends. In savannah after 5 its free parking
urbanlibertarian
September 24, 2008, 05:21:09 PMInstead of having minimum or maximum parking requirements why not just let the property owner or developer decide for themselves? That should go for density, use and setback as well. Let private property rights and local market forces determine these things.
apvbguy
September 24, 2008, 05:25:16 PMurbanlibertarian
September 24, 2008, 07:01:09 PMI was referring to requirements for developments on private property. The developers or property owners should be able to provide as much or as little parking as they believe potential buyers or tenants will want not what the city decides is appropriate.
As for meters I can see how the city would be reluctant to give up a source of revenue after the recent property tax cuts but one would think that increased commercial activity would make up for that.
apvbguy
September 24, 2008, 07:54:56 PMAs for meters I can see how the city would be reluctant to give up a source of revenue after the recent property tax cuts but one would think that increased commercial activity would make up for that.
urbanlibertarian
September 24, 2008, 08:20:56 PMFewer regulations and requirements make economic development easier. I don't think that government understands what will make businesses and developments successful as well as business people and developers.
apvbguy
September 24, 2008, 08:29:44 PMeasier is not better, government has an interest in fostering successful businesses but that is only a part of governments job, which also encompasses the needs of all concerns, not just businesses looking to exploit their location
urbanlibertarian
September 24, 2008, 08:40:10 PMDo you mean "exploit" as in make productive use of? Sounds like a good thing.
jimone
December 15, 2008, 09:26:05 AMI drove my disabled boss downtown to attend a zoning violation meeting last week. The meeting held in city Hall was mandatory and I parked as close as I could to CH so when we came out, he would not need to walk far. I deposited the max of two quarters in the meter and stuck in a third just in case, hoping the meter guard would turn the handle for me. we were 15 minutes late in returning, had the ticket and no one turned the handle til I did to show my boss I had tried to take care of the late situation. In today's economy $1 per minute inflicted on the citizenry seems a little unjustified just to get nearby parking. But, it is always the little guy who gets kicked in the teeth.
Joe
December 15, 2008, 09:42:12 AMSorry to respond to a 4 month old comment, but the above statement is one of the biggest misconceptions in the entire field of land use regulation. The nature of suburban parking is NOT controlled by private developers.
In places like strip malls, the government still completely controls the size, type, and quantity of parking spaces. They control it just as completely as in an urban setting, if not more so.
uptowngirl
December 16, 2008, 07:07:07 AMI hate meters, but I hate searching for a damn parking space more.
I went to the library yesterday to return a mega load of books, I have to hike it from the north forty (two cop cars parked in spots in front of the library but not harrassing or moving anyone from the front of the library or Hemming Plaza!) with 40lbs of books. I also had to feed a meter where I did park and fight off three different homeless dudes begging for money. I told them I had none, they said they would take change, I said I had none, they said I was feeding the meter with change.... well DUH!!!! Then I had to weave my way through the additional homeless outside the library doors (not asking for money thank God!), drop my books off, weave my way through some more homeless inside the library to pick up some new books, and then start the process back to my car......Brentwood Library is looking better and better all the time. I am about to give up on Downtown...I mean really I feel like I am fighting a losing battle with limited 'friendlies" on my side....
fsujax
December 16, 2008, 07:53:51 AMI hate the meters and then not being able to find a quarter to put in the stupid, dinosaur things.....speaking from my experience yesterday.
Lunican
December 16, 2008, 08:44:23 AMFor future reference, the library has a book return drop box on Duval Street.
thelakelander
December 16, 2008, 09:19:08 AMIf you're going to be in downtown near Hemming Plaza for less than an hour, park in the library garage. Make your run, then get your parking validated at the library information desk on the main floor.
stephendare
December 16, 2008, 12:44:34 PMThe Meters need to go. Altogether.
uptowngirl
December 17, 2008, 09:15:46 AMThere is a library parking garage?
I had no idea...
I like that I can order any book on want on line to be delivered anywhere you like (I choose Brentwood) and just go pick it up when you get your email....I ahve found this much easier than trying to park and navigate the homeless downtown. I do miss the little stops i make at the businesses by the library while there...but I am finally starting to realize they really don't want anyone doing anything but working downtown.
stephendare
December 17, 2008, 12:21:18 PMUptowngirl. Welcome to the Ballgame. Its what 900 thousand of your other fellow citizens already knew.
Seriously. You have to wonder about a group of people who don't question whether or not its odd that fully 70 percent of its citizens refuse to come into its downtown.
Poll after poll has told the city that the parking policies are the problem, but these are all dismissed as crazy talk.
"Surely it couldnt be anything that minor".
well it is.
kathy Jackson
November 15, 2009, 09:29:20 PMJacksonville is on the edge of ruin and they are just preying on the poor.
This one of the most racist cities in America.
All people of color know that this hell on earth is cursed, why don't white people?
tufsu1
November 15, 2009, 10:21:44 PMand this relates to parking meters how?