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jeh1980
May 13, 2008, 04:11:22 AMALRIGHT!!!
jeh1980
May 13, 2008, 04:17:24 AMI got a real cool idea! Let's talk to those planners about restoring that electronic clock on top of the old Barnett Bank building! WE NEED THAT!!!
Charles Hunter
May 13, 2008, 06:27:17 AMVery cool! This will be a great improvement to the corridor, and thus downtown.
Is it just me, or are those renderings hard to read? A combination of size (I can't get them big enough) and fancy font in the labels. Got pdfs?
thelakelander
May 13, 2008, 08:34:52 AMlol. Let's take off the rose colored glasses. By this assessment, everyone should have stopped worrying when all of these plans with pretty renderings were announced over the past 37 years:
River City Renaissance - LaVilla-Brooklyn Redevelopment Plan
Northbank Riverwalk Park - 1991
Friendship Park & Fountain-1985
Downtown Intial Action Plan - 1987
Downtown Master Plan - 1971
I could also toss in the Tri-Legacy's Shipyards, Riverwalk Hotel LLC's San Marco Riverwalk Village and the Atkins Group's Ocean Place.
How about the rotating roof top restaurant in JEA's current tower or Syed S. Hassain's redevelopment plans for the Old JEA Tower?
I want to see Laura Street and Downtown find a way to be just as vibrant as they were fifty years ago, but everything revolves around "connectivity" and we still don't fully understand the concept. If this were the case, you would see more foot traffic, based on what we already have downtown right now.
stephendare
May 13, 2008, 09:05:25 AMcouldnt we do that best by restoring it?
thelakelander
May 13, 2008, 09:17:33 AMStephen, assuming you have a limited budget, how would you go about restoring connectivity? What areas would you focus on first and why?
zoo
May 13, 2008, 09:34:37 AMConnectivity is the critical element, but we are also missing drama. I'm not a traffic planner, but I really like the traffic circle idea they've shown in front of the Landing. I don't know if this is the best place for it, but it would be a better locale for the Andrew Jackson/horse bronze that is now buried on NW corner of Landing property. Could be dramatic, but location ensures it isn't.
Don't particularly care for the archway signage idea over Laura. With one at/planned for Hemming Plaza, this could get very overdone.
Plan looks to show a lot of shade trees. This is good idea, as long as they are "neat" trees that don't drop a bunch of leaves, seeds, branches, other stuff that requires clean up. Clean-up maintenance is not one of Jax's areas of strength. Seems to me incorporation of strategically placed misting stations would also help make walkability more comfortable during warmer times of year.
stephendare
May 13, 2008, 09:42:09 AMRestoring connectivity at this point would be mostly possible between the springfield/durkeeville downtown areas since lavilla, brooklyn, fairfield and the east side have been mostly torn down.
Making Main Pearl Davis Laura and Hogan into two way streets would be a huge first step.
Creating visual connectivity to the streets could be cheaply accomplished by using the street intersections and lights as entrance markets to the two areas.
Hogan could easily be restored as a path primarily for boards, bikes and scooters simply by opening up a path through FCCJ, (which is as easy as moving a fence and 8 big bushes and installing lighting) and continuing an alternate transit path along hogan underneath the skyway tracks along the very wide and mostly underused brick pavers
The one way traffic on main street is the most asinine bullshit for connectivity that exists. Restore the whole damned things as a two way to connect springfield easily with San Marco and watch the sudden transit between the two neighborhoods.
Along ocean street, where it stops suddenly at confederate park, create a new entrance or public art display, that is well lit and visible from state street welcoming people to the springfield park system with an adequate sight finders map for people to stop at. (there are sights in springfield after all, the karpeles, the parks, the barnett mansion, the masonic lodge, klutho's home, the womens club, the sinking castle etc.
and create Laura Street as the leading pedestrian thoroughfare by developing the park system, installing lighting etc
thelakelander
May 13, 2008, 11:08:22 AMDon't particularly care for the archway signage idea over Laura. With one at/planned for Hemming Plaza, this could get very overdone.
Plan looks to show a lot of shade trees. This is good idea, as long as they are "neat" trees that don't drop a bunch of leaves, seeds, branches, other stuff that requires clean up. Clean-up maintenance is not one of Jax's areas of strength. Seems to me incorporation of strategically placed misting stations would also help make walkability more comfortable during warmer times of year.
I'm one of those people who does not believe in throwing a lot of money at something if its not absolutely necessary. With that said, the circle, the brick gateways and the wayfinding kiosk (as sketched) may be a little overboard. However, I do love the idea of moving the Jackson statue to that location and making it a visual focal point.
I also like the idea of at-grade tree grates. This increases the usable width of the sidewalks without having to completely rip all of the existing concrete out and replacing it (which would be another excessive expense in my book).
One thing I don't care for is taking out the parallel parking spaces on the block between Bay Street and Independent Drive. Laura Street is wide enough to accomodate two lanes of traffic and sidewalks/parallel parking on both sides of the street.
Overall, I hope we can resist the desire to go overboard, which in turn increases the costs and difficulty in pulling off improvements and can eventually lead to a delay in doing anything. My advice would be to stick with the basics, even if it means phasing (cheap affordable items first, big ticket items somewhere down the road). Things like removing the planters, enhanced lighting, encouraging retailers/diners to embrace the sidewalks and better signage are more more important and cheaper to the concept of connectivity than big expenses like brick and iron gateways, rebuilding sidwalks or creating traffic circles.
stephendare
May 13, 2008, 01:34:56 PMThe Brick Paver obsession is kindof over the top. It should be the last thing implemented imo.
A seperation between the street and the sidewalk of some kind, even if it is in the form of decorative posts which can be used to string chain across would go a long way to encouraging sidewalk dining.
thelakelander
May 13, 2008, 02:18:46 PMAlthough that's cheaper than bricking sidewalks, we don't even have to go that far, unless someone is shooting for a certain theme. On streets like Laura, you already have separation in the form of parallel parking. Removing the planters gives the sidewalk some extra width, which could then be used for a good range of activities, without providing posts or fencing on the city's dime.
JeffreyS
May 13, 2008, 02:23:20 PMInstead of brick pavers you could stain borders in the concrete for next to nothing in one afternoon.
Jason
May 13, 2008, 03:57:18 PMDon't particularly care for the archway signage idea over Laura. With one at/planned for Hemming Plaza, this could get very overdone.
Plan looks to show a lot of shade trees. This is good idea, as long as they are "neat" trees that don't drop a bunch of leaves, seeds, branches, other stuff that requires clean up. Clean-up maintenance is not one of Jax's areas of strength. Seems to me incorporation of strategically placed misting stations would also help make walkability more comfortable during warmer times of year.
I'm one of those people who does not believe in throwing a lot of money at something if its not absolutely necessary. With that said, the circle, the brick gateways and the wayfinding kiosk (as sketched) may be a little overboard. However, I do love the idea of moving the Jackson statue to that location and making it a visual focal point.
I also like the idea of at-grade tree grates. This increases the usable width of the sidewalks without having to completely rip all of the existing concrete out and replacing it (which would be another excessive expense in my book).
One thing I don't care for is taking out the parallel parking spaces on the block between Bay Street and Independent Drive. Laura Street is wide enough to accomodate two lanes of traffic and sidewalks/parallel parking on both sides of the street.
Overall, I hope we can resist the desire to go overboard, which in turn increases the costs and difficulty in pulling off improvements and can eventually lead to a delay in doing anything. My advice would be to stick with the basics, even if it means phasing (cheap affordable items first, big ticket items somewhere down the road). Things like removing the planters, enhanced lighting, encouraging retailers/diners to embrace the sidewalks and better signage are more more important and cheaper to the concept of connectivity than big expenses like brick and iron gateways, rebuilding sidwalks or creating traffic circles.
Honestly, I think the idea should be limited to actually bettering the existing lighting, a few trees and wayfinding signs, but then throw in the coordination between Toney Sleiman and the City to redevlop the Landing and allow it to open up towards the street. That one item, IMO, it the single largest component of anchoring Laura's south end.
thelakelander
June 25, 2008, 06:42:42 AMAn update on Laura Street:
...The second of the action steps, “Develop and implement a comprehensive streetscape plan,” continues to produce results with the completion of the Main Street Park project. Improvements along Main Street included converting a parking lot into a public park across from the Main Library. Date palm trees have been added and sidewalks have been resurfaced and enhanced with brick pavers and decorative planters.
The next streetscape project will improve Laura Street from Hemming Plaza to the Landing. The JEDC plans to outline the project by the beginning of July
“This was an easy project to choose because it was one people identified as a key project,” said Barton. “This project will help us prove what a great walkable corridor can be.”
Walkability is one of the keys Barton identified that would set a foundation for a revitalized Downtown.
full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=50300
Dapperdan
June 25, 2008, 10:35:39 AMIt will be interesting to see if any of Metjax's ideas make it into this plan and what exactly the plan is.
thelakelander
June 25, 2008, 10:43:19 AMMetro Jacksonville's main ideas revolved around creating a visual and stronger physical link between Hemming Plaza and the Landing, in the form of a public/private partnership. Our goal was to find a way to create a stimulating and safe atmosphere by improving what was already in place to keep the costs down to a minimum.
The only thing we wanted from the city was better lighting and making it easier for private entities to add illuminated signage and outdoor dining. I'm sure whatever the city cooks up will include these things and more. I'm just hoping they don't go overboard, like they did with the Main Street pocket park.
pwhitford
June 25, 2008, 11:23:47 AMFrom Jax Daily Record - 06/24/2008
Walking is key step in Downtown Action Plan
by Joe Wilhelm Jr.
Staff Writer
The Downtown Action Plan continued to unfold last Thursday with the opening of Main Street Park and some of the people responsible for that project were trying to get more people behind the plan Monday.
Bob Rhodes, chairman of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, and Ron Barton, executive director of the JEDC, addressed members of the Meninak Club Monday to educate them and guests on the JEDC’s Downtown Action Plan, which is the blueprint for a revitalized Downtown.
Rhodes was introduced by Ted Pappas, of PBV Architecture, who has placed his stamp on buildings throughout Jacksonville including the restoration of Old St. Andrews Episcopal Church and the creation of athletic stadiums at the University of North Florida and The Bolles School.
“Let’s harness some of this energy for Downtown,” said Rhodes after hearing the Meninak members sing the club’s song.
In the fall of 2006 the JEDC determined an action plan needed to be developed to steer Downtown development. That plan was created with the assistance of over 100 local professionals and community leaders.
“This isn’t Ron Barton’s plan for Downtown,” said Barton. “We got help from folks like you in order to develop these 19 steps.”
The second of the action steps, “Develop and implement a comprehensive streetscape plan,” continues to produce results with the completion of the Main Street Park project. Improvements along Main Street included converting a parking lot into a public park across from the Main Library. Date palm trees have been added and sidewalks have been resurfaced and enhanced with brick pavers and decorative planters.
The next streetscape project will improve Laura Street from Hemming Plaza to the Landing. The JEDC plans to outline the project by the beginning of July
“This was an easy project to choose because it was one people identified as a key project,” said Barton. “This project will help us prove what a great walkable corridor can be.”
Walkability is one of the keys Barton identified that would set a foundation for a revitalized Downtown.
“I was in St. Petersburg during a magical time eight years ago,” Barton said. “St. Pete was deader than a door nail. You didn’t have to look up the street to cross. That has all changed in just eight years. You just have to get the basics right.”
Those basics include walkability, making Downtown a destination, making Downtown a neighborhood and developing a framework for continued success.
Another key component of the Downtown Action Plan is to enhance the appeal of the Riverwalk. The wide walkway along the Northbank of the St. Johns River stretches from Berkman Plaza to the Fuller-Warren Bridge.
“People visit our Riverwalk from all over the state and the country,” said Barton. “We want to program the Riverwalk like it’s a theater and make it more of a destination.”
A lull in the real estate market may slow down the revitalization process, but the JEDC is operating with a sense of urgency.
“We need to address these points quicker so we can bring back capital investment when the market comes back up,” said Barton.
jwilhelm@baileypub.com
356-2466
rjp2008
July 30, 2008, 04:34:02 PMWell, street beautification in general is a good thing.
However, the plan seems too small-scale for what the stated goal is though (drawing people downtown - uptown actually!). To give people a reason to walk uphill - quite steep actually - a couple new trees, bushes, pavers and arch sign are not going to do it.
The obstacle working against this whole idea is your trying to force people to hangout right where a great majority of people work.
thelakelander
July 30, 2008, 04:53:03 PMKeep in mind, there is no such thing as a one trick pony for creating downtown vibrancy. Enhancing Laura is one of many things that need to be done to make the downtown environment a better place.
The Laura Street idea, or at least "our" original ideal, was to take advantage of a compact corridor with existing destinations and projects rising along it and improving it with better lighting, landscaping and signage.
While people do work in the area, its actually pretty diverse with the Landing at one end, the office towers in the middle and the Carling, Chew, Knight Lofts, LaCena, Chamblins, City Hall, the Library and MOCA Jax on the north end. However, it suffers from poor lighting and signage, which in turn leads to two nodes of vibrant activity. The Laura St. streetscape plan that can potential combine those nodes into one vibrant one. The city's streetscape plan may be a little overboard, imo (traffic circle, gateway arches, etc.), but the idea of better lighting on the street to make the area more attractive and pedestrian friendly and vibrant is a valid one. In fact, if you're going to improve the walkability of a street downtown, Laura should be the top one, since its the one with more urban building fabric along its path, as opposed to surface parking lots.
Btw, the hill is not steep. Downtown Jax is virtually flat compared to the downtowns of most cities outside of Florida.
rjp2008
July 30, 2008, 05:24:02 PMI understand it's a main artery, that makes sense. The main desire is to make it more a night-time/evening walking destination, correct? Well, as visitor/tourist, what else is there to draw me uphill to at night after I've visited the landing? Library and park are closed at night. Maybe the museum restaurant is open, but that's it.
stephendare
July 30, 2008, 05:30:45 PMBoth establishments would open were there street traffic to justify it.
But First Baptist with crowds of 15 thousand people is in session just as late, and FCCJ has night classes.
Also we have a tendency to think of the downtown neighborhood ending at Union, when in fact there is a huge population of residents across the street in Springfield.
Chamblin's will stay open, with business.
Both the Karpeles and the Museum frequently feature Night Time events, as does FCCJ.
Also La Cena is already open at night.
The Snyder Memorial would make an excellent location for a restaurant club as would the old Seminole Club in Hemming Park.
There is plenty of potential and already existing stuff.
thelakelander
July 30, 2008, 06:24:04 PMDon't forget that when we put our initial ideas together, Kuhn's developments in the middle of this corridor were a major part of it. I also don't believe it was ever done in the intention of attracting tourist. Its simply cleaning and lighting up and area to make it more end user friendly to the every day downtown visitor. Office workers, business owners, residents, visitors, etc. would all be intended users of what could become a safer environment in the heart of downtown, helping enhance the area's image.
brainstormer
July 30, 2008, 06:31:07 PMI was just about to ask about the Kuhn developments. What is the status? Does a bank own them, could some other developer buy them? It would be great to not have this "dead" block on the way from the library to the Landing. Lighting will help the block, but apts or more shops/restaurants would be great.
rjp2008
July 31, 2008, 12:19:59 AMYeah, I could see people walking down from FCCJ and the Baptist church area for coffee/snack/food after events/classes.
* * *
More brainstorming here...
To draw people up from the Landing, I think you'd need a "trail" of really sharp looking spots right off the face of the Modis building and the one across from it (don't know name). And instead of "Regions Bank" off in the distance (why would I want to walk to that?), some kind of interesting, attractive restaurant with a huge, well-lit sign I can see right on that corner.
thelakelander
July 31, 2008, 07:23:33 AMI agree. Its critical that something pedestrian friendly and attractive ends up in those buildings at street level.
skmincey
September 18, 2008, 04:47:48 PMInstead of pavers you can stamp the concrete to look like bricks I have done this to my last four homes, not hard. I am very glad I found this site, am looking at retail space downtown and this is all very interesting! I spent all day downtown yesterday and only counted 20 people walking the streets, that concerned me.
Dapperdan
September 18, 2008, 04:59:46 PMskm,
What time of the day were you walking the streets? Depending on what type of retail you want to open, make sure you realize you will have lots of foot traffic on Bay Street during week nights and weekends, and lots of foot traffic 8-5 M-F anywhere else. Our downtown is not vibrant yet and the crowds ebb and flow.
thelakelander
February 02, 2009, 12:16:14 PMhttp://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/citynotes.php
reednavy
February 02, 2009, 12:57:16 PMSlowly, but surely, this revilization of Laura can create a new day for downtown.
Nice to see more retail coming.
jeh1980
February 02, 2009, 12:59:27 PMAnybody das any idea of what retail we might see at Independent Square?