Print Article
Tale of the Tape:
Tampa 2007: 336,823 (City); 2,723,949 (Metro) - (incorporated in 1849)
Jacksonville Pop. 2007: 805,605 (City); 1,300,823 (Metro) - (incorporated in 1832)
City population 1950: Jacksonville (204,517); Tampa (124,681)
Metropolitan Area Growth rate (2000-2007)
Tampa: +13.69%
Jacksonville: +15.86%
County Population (2007 estimate)
Hillsborough County: 1,174,727
Duval County: 837,964
Urban Area Population (2000 census)
Tampa: 2,062,339 (ranked 19 nationwide)
Jacksonville: 882,295 (ranked 43 nationwide)
Urban Area Population Density (2000 census)
Tampa: 2,570.6
Jacksonville: 2,149.2
City Population Growth from 2000 to 2007
Tampa: +33,376
Jacksonville: +69,988
Convention Center Exhibition Space:
Tampa: Tampa Convention Center (1990) - 200,000 square feet
Jacksonville: Prime F. Osborn III Convention Center (1986) - 78,500 square feet
Tallest Building:
Tampa: 100 North Tampa - 579 feet
Jacksonville: Bank of America Tower - 617 feet
Downtown-Based Fortune 500 companies:
Tampa: zero (0)
Jacksonville: CSX (261), Fidelity National Financial (435), Fidelity National Information Services (481)
Urban infill obstacles:
Tampa: The Leroy Selmon Expressway cuts off Downtown Tampa from the Channel District.
Jacksonville: State & Union Streets cut off Downtown Jacksonville from Springfield.
Downtown Nightlife:
Tampa: The Channel District along the Garrison Channel waterfront.
Jacksonville: East Bay Street, located between Main Street and Liberty Street. This four block stretch is home to four bars and clubs.
Common Downtown Albatross:
Too many surface parking lots
Who's Downtown is more walkable?
Tampa: 97 out of 100, according to walkscore.com
Jacksonville: 88 out of 100, according to walkscore.com
Downtown Tampa is the second largest employment center in the city, behind the Westshore Financial District.
Unique Tampa
- The word "Tampa" means "sticks of fire" in the language of the Calusa, a Native American tribe that once lived in the area.
- During the early 20th century, Tampa was the largest cigar manufacturing center in the United States.
- Was controlled by Sicilian mafioso Santo Trafficante, Jr., one of the last old-time Mafia bosses in the United states.
- The Tampa Bay area is recognized as the Lightning capital of North America.
- The 4.5 mile Bayshore Greenway is the world's longest continuous sidewalk.
- According to Maxim, Tampa is ranked 6th in the entire nation for its party scene.
- Tampa based companies include Raymond James Financial and OSI Restaurants (Outback Steakhouse, Carrabba's, Fleming's Steakhouse & Bonefish Grill)
- The Port of Tampa is the seventh largest in the nation and Florida's largest tonnage port, handling nearly half of all seaborne commerce that passes through the state.
- Completed in 1984, Tampa's Harbour Island Peoplemover quickly became a riderless failure. In the 1990s, the developers required to run the service for 17 years, made a deal with the Tampa Streetcar to close down the People Mover in favor of making a $5 million payment to help fund the streetcar line.
The Channel District is a former warehouse district that has become a popular location for transit oriented development along the TECO Streetcar line. Notable attractions in the area include the Tampa Port Authority, Florida Aquarium, American Victory Museum, St. Pete Times Forum, cruise terminal and Channelside Entertainment Complex.
originally known as Seddon Island, this island was once a port facility. It was purchased from the Seaboard Coast Line in 1979 for future residential, office and retail use. Harbour Island was once home to a Jacksonville Landing-like festival marketplace.
The Shops on Harbour Island was a 66,434 center featuring 50 waterfront restaurants and shops with a people mover connecting the center to a downtown parking garage. In the mid 1990s, the center was closed and converted into office space. Since, then Harbour Island has seen a massive amount of dense residential development.
SoHo Tampa
Short for "South Howard Avenue", this section of Tampa's Hyde Park neighborhood is home to a large concentration of high-end restaurants and nightlife venues.
Ybor City
Originally a separate city, Ybor City was established as a Cuban cigar manufacturing town in 1885. The neighborhood had features unique among contemporary immigrant communities in the southern United States, most notably its multi-ethnic and multi-racial population.
Like most urban districts, Ybor declined in the during the mid 20th century due to aging housing stock, a dying cigar industry, urban renewal and demolition caused by the construction of Interstate 4. Ybor's revitalization began in the late 1980s with an influx of artist seeking inexpensive studio space in the neighborhoods large number of abandoned brick commerical buildings. By the early 1990s, many of the empty buildings had been converted into bars, restaurants, nightclubs and other nightlife attractions.
Recently 7th Avenue, the neighborhood's main commercial thoroughfare, was recognized as one of the "10 Great Streets in America" by the American Planning Association.
Article by Ennis Davis
Share this article
RSS
hanjin1
December 26, 2008, 09:25:58 AMyep, we suck
tufsu1
December 26, 2008, 10:22:42 AMnot true...I've lived in both cities (Tampa from 1999-2005, Jax since)....certain parts of Tampa were doing really well...but the real estate crash put a stop to that.
All things considered, there is more potential here in Jax. to do things right....especially on a regional scale....the City of Tampa is fighting a losing battle with Hillsborough County (the county has twice the pop. of the city) and the then there's the whole Tampa/Hillsborough vs. St. pete/Clearwater/Pinellas thing....and let's not forget the cluster that is known as Pasco County!
heights unknown
December 26, 2008, 11:37:56 AMJacksonville doesn't suck (completely) but has fallen behind Tampa a bit; one thing that sticks out is Tampa is basically similar to Jacksonville relative to the CBD, nice skyline and all of those tall buildings, but nothing is happening there (CBD). Outside of Channelside and Ybor, downtown Tampa is a graveyard outside of 9-5 during the work days/week.
Heights Unknown
Ocklawaha
December 26, 2008, 12:51:26 PMI find it interesting that we compaire Ybor and Channelside in Downtown Tampa's attractions and nightlife, then consider 5-Points, San Marco, St. Nicholas, Park and King as NOT IN JACKSONVILLE!
Also in attractions - the Streetcar was left out. Sorry but (T.R.A.I.N.) The Tourist Railroad Association, puts their "attraction ridership" as high as 1/2 of all boardings.
Sometimes it's how you look at their success... Is the STREETCAR half empty or half full?
Oh, almost forgot, we don't have one.
PEYTON - PULL YOUR HEAD OUT!
OCKLAWAHA
thelakelander
December 26, 2008, 01:16:15 PMIts really not a comparison at all. This article was nothing more than a photo tour around some of urban Tampa's nieghborhoods. If I would have had more time, I would have visited Tampa Heights, West Tampa, Hyde Park's residential sections and Davis Island. All of these Elements of Urbanism articles are intended to give Jacksonville residents a brief look at whats been going on in our peer cities.
Anyway, many may associate the Channel District with DT Tampa because they are directly adjacent to each other. Ybor is a mile away, but its connected to DT via streetcar, thus creating a nice line of urban development along its path between the neighborhoods. Here, spots like Five Points may be close to DT, but its disconnected and not really promoted. If we can provide a strong link between our core neighborhoods and DT, the viewpoint towards DT Jax will change as well.
Ocklawaha
December 26, 2008, 01:20:30 PMBINGO!
Thanks Lake!
OCKLAWAHA
thelakelander
December 26, 2008, 01:24:30 PMAll things considered, there is more potential here in Jax. to do things right....especially on a regional scale....the City of Tampa is fighting a losing battle with Hillsborough County (the county has twice the pop. of the city) and the then there's the whole Tampa/Hillsborough vs. St. pete/Clearwater/Pinellas thing....and let's not forget the cluster that is known as Pasco County!
One of the things I love about the Tampa/St. Pete/Clearwater MSA , is its diversity. If we begin to overlook the municipal boundary limits, its clear that that the area is one large urban area with a variety of things to do. Its also more than twice the size of Urban Jax for what its worth. There is a lot of work that needs to take place in Tampa, but the city is on the right path. 15 years ago, this assessment would have been a questionable one.
As for Jax, we have all the potential in the world. We just have to find a way to get our heads out of the sand.
thelakelander
December 26, 2008, 03:11:50 PMSpeaking of Tampa's streetcar line there are a couple of things that we can learn from their system:
1. Rail does bring economic development and create long term jobs.
Tampa's 2.5 mile line has stimulated over $1 billion in transit oriented development over a five year period. That development includes restaurants, office buildings, hotels, condos, lofts, galleries and retail stores. All of those places employ people. When we talk about investing in transportation as a part of an economic stimulus package, the long term creation of jobs is just as important as the jobs stimulated by the project's construction process.
2. A system should appeal to residents as well as tourists
Tampa's streetcar appeals to tourist instead of residents. While Tampa's goal may have been to appeal to tourists, it would not have hurt if it worked as a viable mass transit option for residents as well. It was a mistake to not run that thing into the heart of DT or close to UT with the initial phase. Ridership would have been a lot higher which would make expansion an easier sell. Anything done here should not only loop around DT (like the skyway), it needs to connect with everyday popular destinations in the urban core (ie. Five Points, Farmer's Market, Sports District, etc.). A system here should also be well integrated into the city's overall mass transit system.
GatorShane
December 26, 2008, 04:00:32 PMI look at this and wonder what the hell are we doing? Tampa is miles ahead of us because they have leaders that think outside of the box. Do we have anyone in our city hall like that? Wake up Jacksonville!
tufsu1
December 26, 2008, 05:34:59 PMonce again, Tampa is not miles ahead of Jax!
Here's the timeline for what's happened in the Channelside area...
The Aquarium was built around 1994....for 5 years there was nothing else in the area....the new cruise terminal (#2) opened in 1999....followed by the Channelside shops in 2001, which struggled for at least 3 years due to a lack of activity when cruise ships weren't in town.
The streetcar line opened sometime around 2002....and was immediately derided as a huge waste of $...after all, it cost $52 million (including the trolley barn) and took 22 minutes to go 3 miles!
Then, 10 years after creating the Channelside Community Redevelopment Area, a few condo developers signed on....and then as the real estate market took off, so did Channelside residential options.
Of course, now that the market has tanked, more than 2/3 of the condo units sit empty and several of the buildings have been auctioned off for far less than it cost to build them.
Bottom line.....the Channel District has been a 15 year work in progress....and Jax. has been trying to do similar things in the Brooklyn area for about 3 years....so come back in 2020 and seee what it looks like!
heights unknown
December 26, 2008, 06:35:37 PMJudging from tufsu1's previous post, it was basically a "luck of the draw" with Tampa; the timing of everything was right on the button; it appears that Jax started to want to peak right at the end of the real estate boom when everything was beginning to falter and very quickly later "went for bust." For a while it looked like we would have at least six to seven new developments, including high rise towers downtown.
It appears that Jax is always on the tail end of the prosperity trail, and by the time the City or City leaders figure out what's needed, the world or the nation moves on to something else that is not in the City's interest or something negative or adverse happens to cancel out that progress...thus Jax losing out and not following through. What a shame.
Can you imagine if some developers came in interested in Lavilla and Brooklyn, and all of a sudden we have skyscrapers and highrises gracing those areas (similar to Brickell in Miami) and the area now known as downtown becomes "old downtown?" Would be nice.
Heights Unknown
thelakelander
December 26, 2008, 08:54:51 PMWe also should not forget about the importance of sticking to a long range plan.
DT Jax has been in continuous redevelopment for over 50 years. However, the synergy that you see in cities like Indianapolis, Columbus, Charlotte and Nashville has not materialized because we can't stick to a long range plan. If we can't stick to a plan, Brooklyn may be worse off like LaVilla.
thelakelander
December 26, 2008, 09:17:14 PMTampa does have the extra benefit of being a part of a larger metropolitan area that is closely located to others (like Orlando, Lakeland and Sarasota). Its also a more architecturally progressive community that does a pretty good job of promoting and marketing its history (ie. Ybor City and the cigar industry flavor). However, I would not describe Tampa's leadership as progressive. From my experience, in many cases, it takes Orlando to deal with an issue, forcing Tampa's leaders to attempt to keep up (regional competition). Locally, we're pretty isolated so, to a degree, we keep our heads in the sand when it comes to embracing market changes and new trends.
jeh1980
December 27, 2008, 03:40:53 AMTampa does have the extra benefit of being a part of a larger metropolitan area that is closely located to others (like Orlando, Lakeland and Sarasota). Its also a more architecturally progressive community that does a pretty good job of promoting and marketing its history (ie. Ybor City and the cigar industry flavor). However, I would not describe Tampa's leadership as progressive. From my experience, in many cases, it takes Orlando to deal with an issue, forcing Tampa's leaders to attempt to keep up (regional competition). Locally, we're pretty isolated so, to a degree, we keep our heads in the sand when it comes to embracing market changes and new trends.
Lakelander, I somehow disagree about the idea of Jacksonville being isolated. It is not just about our city needing to get our heads out of the sand (I don't know how in the world we get the idea about Jacksonville putting their heads in the sand when it comes to embracing market changes and new trends.
Ocklawaha
December 27, 2008, 02:08:09 PMInteresting comments Jeh 1980, but Peyton has been offered all the free help we can dish out. He won't talk to you or anyone else about some idea for the city. Been there, done that, more then once. So far we have a list of about 60 projects or whole area's of improvement that he has refused to hear or act on.
Now with term limits moving him out in 2011, he's got no reason to do anything more then collect a check, which in my opinion is about all he has done for 6 years.
OCKLAWAHA
thelakelander
December 27, 2008, 02:45:59 PMjeh, when I speak of being isolated, I mean from a competition kind of sense. Regionally speaking, we're the big dog in North Florida and Southern Georgia. There is no other city within an hour's drive that can compete blow for blow. Things are different in Central and South Florida where there are several cities with more than 100,000 residents within a stone's throw of each other. Because of the heavy level of regional competition, municipalities in those areas are more likely to quickly embrace new things.
heights unknown
December 27, 2008, 05:38:25 PMSo in essence jeh you're saying that Jax needs to discover itself and its own identity and not worry about regional competition (in which I agree with Lake we really have no regional competition from another major Florida City in our neck of the woods, save Gainesville and Tallahassee, and they are not really on our level or viewed as competition).
I disagree regarding your thoughts on our City Leaders; good ole boy network, etc., whatever you want to call them, basically most of Jax's Mayors and their Administrations, for the exception in my opinion of "Jake the Snake" Godbold, have fallen short on mapping out a successful, definitive plan and vision for the progress, success, and long term success of Jax as a whole and our downtown. And when something is planned out or laid on the table that's really good, it appears they have great difficulty in moving it forward or making a quick, rational decision that's for the good of the City.
Just my opinion.
Heights Unknown
tufsu1
December 27, 2008, 09:25:12 PMI suggest that everyone read the Downtown Master Plan update from around 2000....that is the long-term vision....JEDC has now set up a short-term strategy )Downtown Action Plan) that is consistent with the vision.
http://www.coj.net/Departments/Jacksonville+Economic+Development+Commission/Downtown+Development/Downtown+Maste.htm
The fact is it often takes a long time to see progress....and I will agree w/ Lake that there has not been follow through on previous plans....also I will admit that Jax has been a bit slow on picking up on national trends, primarily due the conservative views that many peopl around here have.
jeh1980
December 27, 2008, 10:49:16 PMNow with term limits moving him out in 2011, he's got no reason to do anything more then collect a check, which in my opinion is about all he has done for 6 years.
OCKLAWAHA
Keith-N-Jax
December 27, 2008, 11:11:18 PMHe'll be out of office by then. I was in Tampa for Xmas, just got back. There is nothing there that cant be acomplished here. Jax problems lay with administration. Let's say that the master plan had been followed for the last 5 yrs. We probably would not be even having this conversation.
thelakelander
December 27, 2008, 11:42:18 PMhttp://www.coj.net/Departments/Jacksonville+Economic+Development+Commission/Downtown+Development/Downtown+Maste.htm
The fact is it often takes a long time to see progress....and I will agree w/ Lake that there has not been follow through on previous plans....also I will admit that Jax has been a bit slow on picking up on national trends, primarily due the conservative views that many peopl around here have.
The City of Jacksonville is the biggest threat to its own master plan. On nearly every single city project, critical parts of the plan's guidelines have been ignored. Listed in blue are a few guidelines from the plan with examples of city projects that have ignored them.
Urban Design Guidelines
Intent: To maintain traditional block patterns with a grid of streets. To eliminate vacant streets and minimize the creation of suber blocks, wherever practically possible. Encourage new large development proposals to respect the existing Jacksonville downtown street pattern.
Courthouse Action: Creation of super block, eliminating the traditional grid block pattern.
Intent: To provide connections between major anchors and activities. Encourage ground floor uses that link activities and relate to the theme of the area.
City Hall Annex Action: Ground floor retail space removed and replaced with inaccessible office space. This creates a permanent dead zone of activity on a major corner of Hemming Plaza at nights and on weekends.
Site Design and Building Form Guidelines
Intent: To encourage development that is designed to improve the pedestrian's experience of Downtown Jacksonville. Respect the existing development patterns. Provide frequent pedestrian entries along the street.
Main Library Action: Five story blank walls along Duval and Monroe Streets. This action creates a negative situation for potential retail on these blocks (no anchor to stimulate continuous foot traffic).
Intent: To minimize the impact of parking and service areas in downtown. Provide active uses such as shops and restaurants on the ground floor of garages to engage pedestrians.
Sports Complex Garages: No retail space in garages. Garages are also not designed to accomodate future retail options.
A master plan is only effective when applied to 100% of projects being developed in the urban core (both public and private). By not following its own master plan, the city is defeating the purpose of the plan's original intentions.
Another thing that worries me about the recent DT Action Plan is the fact that funding sources and timelines have not been identified or developed for specific listed improvements. When a city identifies these issues and make a commitment to stick to them, progress can happen in a short period of time (ie. DT Lakeland). If this does not happen, the plan could eventually end up on the shelf collecting dust (ie. DT Jax Mater Plan of 1971).
thelakelander
December 27, 2008, 11:45:53 PMAgreed. If the DT Master Plan was strictly enforced on 100% of projects (both public and private) since 2000, the scene would be different.
aj_fresh
December 27, 2008, 11:56:24 PMlewyn
December 28, 2008, 12:03:59 AMI have been to Tampa and it is nothing to write home about.
1. In Ybor City half the restaurants seem to be closed during the day; the other half are closed after 5.
2. In Hyde Park (the 1920s streetcar suburb most comparable to Riverside) the water access is not nearly as good as in Riverside because Bayshore Blvd. (a speedway) cuts off the neighborhood from the water.
Like the streetcar though.
thelakelander
December 28, 2008, 12:07:27 AMIf I recall:
Courthouse - Security issues. However, Charlotte's recent courthouse project faced similar issues, yet still featured multiple entrances.
City Hall Annex - They needed all the space for office use despite not knowing what offices would be going into the building.
Sports Complex Garages - No market for retail. That's a decent argument, but the garages should have been designed to accomodate retail when the time comes.
Main Library - It was already under construction when I moved to town, so I'm not sure if the issue ever came up.
thelakelander
December 28, 2008, 12:15:59 AM2. In Hyde Park (the 1920s streetcar suburb most comparable to Riverside) the water access is not nearly as good as in Riverside because Bayshore Blvd. (a speedway) cuts off the neighborhood from the water.
I prefer Hyde Park's waterfront access because its public. I mean having a +5 mile public waterfront promenade is pretty impressive. Unfortunately, outside of a few isolated locations, the public can not enjoy most of Riverside's.
As far as DT's go, I prefer Jax's. Better riverfront access and a large collection of older architecturally significant structures. DT Tampa got a little to demo happy for my tastes.
Jason
December 29, 2008, 03:05:50 PMWhat became of the Harbor Island people mover? Was it demolished?
thelakelander
December 29, 2008, 03:12:52 PMIt was demolished.
copperfiend
December 29, 2008, 04:12:42 PMThey can't. The city is like your child that constantly lets you down and you keep loaning money to.
TPC
December 29, 2008, 06:06:32 PMI've lived in Clearwater for a number of years and frequented Tampa and St. Pete quite often. When I moved to Jacksonville it kind of reminded me of the three combined into one big city. I would say the Tampa area has much more to offer then Jacksonville when it comes to a nightlife and an urban core. Jacksonville has great potential but unfortunately I don't see any great strides towards progression in the near future.
seaside1991
January 01, 2009, 11:59:16 PMI think that this website has a great thing going here with learning from other peer cities. Certain elements of another city can be used with a local spin on it for the betterment of the community. For example: I don't think all cities should have a replica of the Lake Eola fountain but installing fountains in lakes and around town can be a refreshing visual. I live in Tampa. I have previously lived in the Orlando area and I especially became attached to that area through my teen years and early 20's. When I moved to Tampa in late '95 I was appalled at how unattractive the place was, even around Busch Gardens. Simple things like streetscaping were nowhere. Broken signage, old 70s looking buildings seemed to be everywhere. It was downright depressing. Now over a decade later, Tampa is a much better place. It's cleaner, more beautified, more Reconstructed roads, new malls, more things that keep the area up to date. Something that has probably helped is that our mayor has traveled to several different cities on learning expeditions. Hopefully, your mayor checks out this site sometimes.
BTW, I monitor this site because I've always thought Jacksonville is an interesting city. It's unique among the FL cities. The great history, bridges, the great downtown setting, etc. (Good future topic: Gainesville area -Jax expressway)
DemocraticNole
January 15, 2009, 09:18:27 PMI moved from Jax to Tampa in June of 2008. There are pros and cons to both areas. However, I will say that the Tampa area is definitely NOT a thriving area for urban infill growth. To me, South Tampa is the only area around where I see that concept in place. Channelside has some things there, but like others have pointed out those condos are mostly empty. As for Ybor, I know of no one here that actually likes going down there. Most people think it is the ghetto and especially don't want to go down there at night. My friend personally witnessed a stabbing in Ybor just a few years ago. Tampa does seem to be doing a better job than Jax, but that isn't saying much.
One HUGE advantage Jacksonville has is the road infrastructure. There are lots more freeways and well maintained roads up in Jax. When they do build one, it is toll like the Veterans Exwy and Crosstown Exwy. Pinellas County (St. Pete/Clearwater) is really paying for all the freeway revolts they had back in the 1970's. As a result, it takes absolutely forever to get from one side of the county to the other. Outside of I-275 there are no limited access highways in Pinellas County, which has over 900,000 people. They are upgrading sections of US 19 to freeway standard, but not enough of it. If one were to go from say the St. Pete Beach area up to Tarpon Springs, it would take probably an hour to go less than 30 miles. That is not very efficient. Pinellas has also spent no money on a decent public transit system. They have the PSTA Bus, but no light rail. The area would be greatly benefited if there was light rail all the way through Pinellas County and from St. Pete over to Tampa.
Jacksonville also has the advantage of being a city/county government, which means they don't have to negotiate with all the different municipalities. Pinellas County has town such as Gulport of like a few thousand people that are able to hold the whole community hostage if they don't like something. If Jax ever gets competent leadership, they will have a huge advantage at being able to develop the city.
ProjectMaximus
January 16, 2009, 03:13:27 AMJust two more years...two more years...i hope
Keith-N-Jax
January 16, 2009, 08:48:59 PMJust two more years...two more years...i hope
That will be a start, but I think our problems lay much deeper than just one position.
aj_fresh
January 22, 2009, 10:28:07 AMArticle from MSNBC regarding Super Bowl and things to do:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28628173/
“There are a lot of unique pockets in the Tampa Bay area that offer a little bit of something for everybody,” said Reid Sigmon, executive director of the Super Bowl Host Committee. “And the weather in January is typically in the 70s and sunshine, which isn't the case in most of the rest of the country.”
Now Tampa is the big boy here, for sure. It's got the skyline, port, big-city museums, world-class aquarium and Busch Gardens theme park, plus a hockey arena and outdoor amphitheater that draw the concert calendar's biggest acts. Some of the glitziest game week parties will happen in the clubs and restaurants of Ybor City, the former Latin quarter downtown that was redeveloped as an entertainment district before the city's last Super Bowl in 2001.
copperfiend
January 22, 2009, 11:41:49 AMJust two more years...two more years...i hope
That will be a start, but I think our problems lay much deeper than just one position.
And if Davis replaces Peyton, there will be no change.
SuburbanArmada
July 18, 2009, 05:16:40 AMHey all, I am from Tampa. I love cities and this paper usually gave good reviews of our metropolises in Florida. Anyway, two things about this article, good and bad news:
1. GREAT photography work! Excellent pictures and in fact I saw a couple street corners I am yet to see here.
2. Although, this article is SEVERELY overlooking and underreporting our urban core:
-Davis Islands was not mentioned. It is a beautiful island community with a small, charming business district that has a lot of nice restaurants and bars, etc. It is located right next to Harbour Island and Bayshore Blvd. One block from the business district you have amazing views of the Seddon Channel, Harbour Island, the skyline, and the Port.
-Harbour Island was implied to be residential-only but indeed it has some of the best restaurants in the area, with waterfront and skyline views. Jackson's is a hugely popular and attractive club on the island that hosted several official Super Bowl parties.
-Hyde Park Village was not mentioned. It is a really nice outdoor shopping area among the streets of Hyde Park, mostly on Swann Ave. Closest thing I can compare it to in Jacksonville is Five Points.
-Nightlife in Downtown proper was not mentioned. There is a lot of nightlife and dining downtown, especially on Franklin Street. The Tampa Bay Performing Arts Center (TBPAC) is one of the largest in the country and was not mentioned at all. Also, the area is becoming increasingly residential with just as many condo towers as Channelside. The RIVERWALK project was also completely ignored. It will wrap around the entire downtown area going through parks, and even meander to the historic Tampa Heights neighborhood. Speaking of Tampa Heights, it is on its way to being part of the core. You can't discuss Downtown Tampa in 2009 without mention of the Riverwalk.
-Channelside has way more content than was mentioned, including a lot of new shopping, an expanding retail corridor along 12th Street directly in front of the complex, etc. The busy nightlife and tons of luxury residences completed in the district were also not spoken of.
-A map of our urban core was not shown. When you combine the land area/block lengths of Hyde Park/Bayshore, Downtown, Harbour Island, Davis Islands, Channelside, and Ybor City, it is am impressive area that is entirely contiguous. The streetcar lines were briefly mentioned but there is also a separate trolley connecting Downtown, Channelside and Harbour Island. Also not mentioned were the water taxis currently in use and plans to utilize them more fully, AND the Neighborhood Electric Vehicles being used by small companies to shuttle people between these core neighborhoods.
-West Tampa is not too far from the core. It is a neighborhood with Cuban roots on the national register of historic places. Tons of Cuban eateries and marketplaces. The "Vi-Mi/Mills 50" district in Orlando is just like this and was featured.
-Although not part of the urban core, the Westchase neighborhood is suburban but designed like Baldwin Park in Orlando, etc. It has a town center called West Park Village with a lot of shops, bars, etc in a streetside setting. I mention this because similar neighborhoods have been highlighted for other cities but not for this article.
-Perhaps the best part is that this is disregarding the entire other side of the bay: St. Petersburg and its impressive urban core of Downtown/Old Northeast/Kenwood, the 40 miles of ranking beaches, Clearwater, Tarpon Springs, Dunedin, Gulfport, Palm Harbor, etc. I know this was just about TAMPA only but the Orlando article discussed Winter Park which is not in Orlando proper.
To back up my claims just browse Tampa's well-sourced Wikipedia page. Follow the links to read about all of the core neighborhoods: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Tampa
Thanks to whomever read my diatribe, hopefully you'll see Tampa is better than this article described.
Omarvelous09
July 18, 2009, 09:45:55 AMumm....Tampa? Jacksonville natives should be grateful that our city isn't as awful, and bland as Tampa.
Ocklawaha
July 18, 2009, 11:43:09 AM-A map of our urban core was not shown. When you combine the land area/block lengths of Hyde Park/Bayshore, Downtown, Harbour Island, Davis Islands, Channelside, and Ybor City, it is am impressive area that is entirely contiguous. The streetcar lines were briefly mentioned but there is also a separate trolley connecting Downtown, Channelside and Harbour Island. Also not mentioned were the water taxis currently in use and plans to utilize them more fully, AND the Neighborhood Electric Vehicles being used by small companies to shuttle people between these core neighborhoods.
Sorry SuburbanArmada, but the "separate trolley's," are NOT trolleys at all. They are cheap imitation Mickey Mouse vehicles that are more Potato Chip Truck then either a bus or a streetcar. In Jax even the JTA refers to them as "PCT Trolleys." They are an insult to passenger intelligence as well as passenger comfort. In fact they are such a nothing that when pitted against streetcars in Tuscon, they lost badly. The formula? The Tuscon streetcars run only on the weekends with volunteer labor. They don't go all the way from the University into downtown as they were built by railroad buffs and the city using very limited funding. As a weekend attraction the streetcar charges around $2.00 per ride. The PCT "trolleys" ran every day, all the way into downtown and only charged a quarter. Guess which one got the most ridership?
STREETCARS!
OCKLAWAHA
tufsu1
July 18, 2009, 10:59:43 PMno need to attack the folks from Tampa....they have a point...Tampa's urban core (including downtown, Hyde Park, Channelside, Ybor, David Islands, and Tampa Heights) is very nice.
Here in Jax, we would include Springfield, Riverside/Avondale, and San Marco as well as downtown into our urban core.
Ocklawaha
July 18, 2009, 11:13:09 PMHere in Jax, we would include Springfield, Riverside/Avondale, and San Marco as well as downtown into our urban core.
I'm with you on this one tufsu1, I've always thought of Tampa as a sort of kid sister to Jacksonville. If we had to pick another Florida town or City which is similar to Jacksonville, without regards to size, I'd say Tampa (and maybe Palatka). Tampa is not all bad, after all THEY BUILT OUR STREETCAR after we wrote the concept back in 1980!
OCKLAWAHA
thelakelander
July 18, 2009, 11:47:42 PMWelcome to Metro Jacksonville, SuburbanArmada. Thanks for the extra input on what Tampa's urban core has to offer. If you don't mind, I'll try and respond to a few of your points.
1. GREAT photography work! Excellent pictures and in fact I saw a couple street corners I am yet to see here.
2. Although, this article is SEVERELY overlooking and underreporting our urban core:
-Davis Islands was not mentioned. It is a beautiful island community with a small, charming business district that has a lot of nice restaurants and bars, etc. It is located right next to Harbour Island and Bayshore Blvd. One block from the business district you have amazing views of the Seddon Channel, Harbour Island, the skyline, and the Port.
Davis Islands, as well as West Tampa, Tampa Heights and a few other neighborhoods were not mentioned. These photos tours tend to be brief highlights of cities across the country. Nevertheless, feel free (as you have done) to add information on them, as well as images to expose more viewers to what Tampa has to offer.
Thanks. My intention was not to imply that there was no commercial development at Harbour Island. I'm not crazy about how the south half of the island has been developed, but the northern section is an excellent example of a infill pedestrian friendly mixed-use community.
Hyde Park Village was not mentioned this time around, but a few images of HPV were included in the SOHO section.
Keep in mind, this article was primarily a photo tour with little written information about individual projects and destinations in the downtown core. However, the set up of our online discussion allows these articles to grow as time goes on. The additional information you add to the discussion will be seen by all who view the original article. With that said, can you fill us in on the riverwalk project? Is it already complete?
-A map of our urban core was not shown. When you combine the land area/block lengths of Hyde Park/Bayshore, Downtown, Harbour Island, Davis Islands, Channelside, and Ybor City, it is am impressive area that is entirely contiguous. The streetcar lines were briefly mentioned but there is also a separate trolley connecting Downtown, Channelside and Harbour Island. Also not mentioned were the water taxis currently in use and plans to utilize them more fully, AND the Neighborhood Electric Vehicles being used by small companies to shuttle people between these core neighborhoods.
As mentioned earlier, the original article was basically a brief photo tour of Tampa's downtown and a few nearby vibrant districts. However, I'll keep this in mind the next time I'm in town to snap a few images for a Tampa update.
I love West Tampa. It has some great architecture remaining from its days as a cigar manufacturing community. I actually prefer it to the Vi-Mi district. Btw, while Orlando's Vi-Mi was mentioned, Parramore and a few other Orlando neighborhoods were not, in that particular article.
All of the Elements of Urbanism articles are unique in their own right. They aren't intended to cover every urban district or infill project in every city each time. However, this does not meant additional areas will not be covered in future articles. Also, if you would like, we'll be happy to let you put together a more detailed Tampa article. It would be interesting to see things from a local resident's perspective.
To back up my claims just browse Tampa's well-sourced Wikipedia page. Follow the links to read about all of the core neighborhoods: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Tampa
St. Petersburg was large enough for their own separate photo tour. This helps keep the number of images shown, per article down to a reasonable number. Here is a link:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-dec-elements-of-urbanism-st-petersburg
Thanks for the input. Looking forward to hearing more about what urban Tampa has to offer.
thelakelander
July 19, 2009, 12:00:26 AMSpeaking of not covering all urban districts, a year or so ago, we ran a downtown Atlanta photo tour that did not include Buckhead or Midtown. I'm in Atlanta tonight and my plan before heading back to Jax tomorrow, is to take shots for a future Midtown/Buckhead photo tour. However, I'll most likely not take shots of places like Cabbagetown or Five Points this time around. As mentioned earlier, outside of the statistics at the beginning of each article, most will be unique in their own right. Some can be of a downtown, a specific urban neighborhood or a mixture of both. It really depends on the amount of time I have to spend in each community at a given date. Nevertheless, the underlying point remains the same. That is to give viewers a visual image of various urban districts, successes and failures across the country.
SuburbanArmada
July 19, 2009, 04:26:03 AMOk, good deal. I may have unintentionally come off as aggressive, my apologies. Me, write a more detailed Tampa article? Sounds like an idea actually, if someone lets me in on how to do that.
AaroniusLives
December 02, 2009, 02:25:31 PMTotally agree. I detest Tampa. A wretched cultural hole. Jacksonville, despite it's problems, is actually much, much, much, much, much better than Tampa. Not even a comparison. Jacksonville is a place you'd want to live and make better. Tampa is a place you wish the sinkhole would swallow.
Reaper man
December 02, 2009, 05:42:45 PMHeeeey now, Tampa has an awesome strip club down there.
AaroniusLives
December 02, 2009, 05:56:20 PMThat's the Tampa trifecta: Pawn Shop. Strip Club. Discount Store. Welcome to Generic 1970s Strip Mall #8999765.