From Metro Jacksonville Member Steve Congro to FDOT Public Relations Guru Michael Goldman, Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:33 PM
Mike,
My name is Steve Congro, and I'm with a Downtown Think Tank called MetroJacksonville.com. We focus on issues affecting Downtown Jacksonville, and the surrounding areas. I had a question regarding the I-95 Northbound signage at Exit 350A.
The sign list four roads (Riverside Ave, Mary St, Main St, and Prudential Drive). It appears that this sign was created around the ramps that existed for the original Acosta Bridge and the Main St Bridge before the northbank Ramps were added. The reason that I say this is because the signs are very misleading for a driver coming downtown. For one, there is no way to get directly to Main St from the Ramp; you get dumped out on Ocean from the Main St Bridge. In addition, nowhere on these signs does it mention Water St or Broad St (until you are actually on the Acosta bridge). These are the roads that two of the three lanes of the bridge will put you out on. Finally, other than the sign a mile from the exit, the names of the bridges are nowhere to be found, so someone at the exit who was told to take the Acosta bridge from a friend will have no idea where to go.
Is there any plan to replace or revise this sign?
Thanks for your time, and feel free to check out our site at MetroJacksonville.com.
Steve Congro
MetroJacksonville.com
From FDOT's Tom Cavin to FDOT's Don Drury, Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:29 PM
Don,
I like the idea. I have always thought these signs should state Main Street Bridge and Acosta Bridge.
Tom Cavin, P.E.
From FDOT's Jim Scott to Don Drury, No Time Stamp
Don:
I like the plan. Let's try for the new signs. If Tom agrees with this scheme, please forward to Rick Ball to get concurrence from the City. After the City approves we will get back in touch with Mr. Congro.
Jim Scott, P.E.
From Don Drury to COJ's Richard Ball, Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:49 PM
Rick,
Please see the e-mail below from Mr. Steve Congro, he has asked FDOT to review the existing signing on I-95 NB for Exit 350A. This is the exit to either the Main St Bridge or Acosta Bridge into downtown. Our review found we could adjust the wording on three existing overhead sign assemblies. I have attached what we can do to help clear up any misunderstandings as to where the Main St & Acosta Bridges are located from Exit 350A. He was also concerned about having the message of Main Street, which you cannot directly reach from the Main Street Bridge, it's either Ocean, Bay or Newnan Street's.
Basically if we change any of our existing signs we will add the Main St Bridge and Acosta Bridge to the three locations and we will change Main Street to Ocean Street if the City of Jacksonville agrees that Ocean Street is the correct street to sign on I-95 northbound at Exit 350A.
Thank you,
Don Drury
From Richard Ball to JEDC Executive Director Ron Barton, Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:42 PM
Ron:
Does the JEDC have any preferences in this issue.
The point that you end up on Ocean St. not Main St. if you are northbound across the Main St. bridge makes a lot of sense to me but I would like your input before I reply to FDOT.
Three Months Pass......
From Richard Ball to Ron Barton, Monday, July 07, 2008 8:31 AM
Ron:
FDOT is pushing me for an answer to this.
I still need JEDC's input.
From Ron Barton To JEDC's Paul Crawford and Eric Lindstrom, Monday, July 07, 2008 10:01 AM
I guess DOT wants to do something. Can you guys figure out the best approach for downtown. Paul you looked at some of this stuff earliest when it first came out.
From Paul Crawford to Richard Ball, Ron Barton and Eric Lindstrom Monday, July 08, 2008 11:28 AM
Attached are my recommendations for the modifications to the FDOT signage approaching downtown.
(Click HERE to download the attachment to this message)
Unfortunately, you will find that nowhere in the attached document is there anything regarding the original topic; the signage for exit 350A from I-95 into downtown.
Paul Crawford - FDOT just needs a Yes or a No.
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fsujax
August 08, 2008, 08:00:46 AMand you wonder why things move at a snails pace Downtown......
copperfiend
August 08, 2008, 08:23:10 AMIs somebody asleep at the wheel or is there even a wheel?
Doctor_K
August 08, 2008, 08:25:56 AMarchiphreak
August 08, 2008, 08:41:32 AMWell, I see the immediate problem with this scenario. You've got one guy sending in a letter to one guy to ask to have signage revised and clarified for travelers. This simple request ends up involving 7 different people all asking the other to make a decision or even to get a hold of yet another person in yet another department to offer input on SIGNAGE! It's insane. People think we live in a democratic society. Unfortunately the reality is we live in a bureaucratic society with everyone asleep at the wheel that's not there. But, I forget, this is Jacksonville. No one wants to talk about the great big elephant in the middle of the room that is the gross inefficiency of our city government.
zoo
August 08, 2008, 08:58:09 AMThis experience with JEDC is consistent with the experience I and others have had with them in the past. Issues re: Downtown DRI are not important unless they are tied to Miles/Hallmark project in Brooklyn, Kings Ave TOD, Bay Street Station or any other large development project. The basics like signage, lighting, core transit, social services are topics that are too difficult to address, so they get pushed around until they are lost in the bureaucracy.
SunKing
August 08, 2008, 09:00:41 AMThe state guys are very responsive, which is surprising. What is not surprising is that Ron Barton is not. The guy has done literally nothing worthy of mention during his tenure. (Cecil, Brooklyn?) If it is not on his agenda, its not worth his time. This is the Gateway to Downtown from I95N and look at his response!
thelakelander
August 08, 2008, 09:24:10 AMInteresting chain of emails and timeline. This one is not rocket science. Hopefully, the JEDC has correctly answered the FDOT's question by now.
GatorDone
August 08, 2008, 08:26:08 PMAnd some people want the government to run the health care system.
urbanlibertarian
August 08, 2008, 08:52:20 PM"If you think health care is expensive now just wait until it's free." P.J. O'Rourke
gatorback
August 08, 2008, 08:53:47 PMIt's a pulpit not a wheel.
DetroitInJAX
August 09, 2008, 12:31:36 AMI always wondered about those signs too.... Why sign something "Main St." when you end up on Ocean St?
And why, when all of Duval County is "Jacksonville" do all the local signs pointing at Downtown say "Jacksonville". They should say "Downtown" or "Downtown Jacksonville".
KennyLovesJAX
August 09, 2008, 02:43:16 PMI send them an email about 2 months ago about the same issue!
JeffreyS
August 09, 2008, 04:46:22 PMDuring the las real estate boom downtown seemed to make some progress. This is the type of thing you do to improve Downtown (and just traveling in this city) on the cheap. Taking care of lights and signage now will help prepare Downtown to take advantage of better days in the economy.
What can we do to light a fire under the COJ.
Charles Hunter
August 09, 2008, 10:47:35 PMRelated downtown signage question - why are the illuminated purple signs allowed to fade to unreadability? Is this JEDC? DVI? City? State?
thelakelander
August 09, 2008, 10:54:25 PMJEDC/City. This is something they are supposed to be working on replacing, according to the JEDC's new Downtown Action Plan.
Charles Hunter
August 09, 2008, 11:15:38 PMAlong with wayfinding signs for pedestrians and lighting Laura?
thelakelander
August 09, 2008, 11:47:33 PMThe purple signs are considered wayfaring signage. However, from what I understand the Laura Street work will be a separate project.
Coolyfett
August 10, 2008, 01:55:31 AMSteve Congro is a genius...those signs should have been changed before 2004, I worked downtown for AOL during the superbowl week, and many people were lost on Ocean looking for Main Street trying to get to Bay Street. It makes sense now why they were lost.
Good question, especially since the Coliseum & Gator Bowl are no longer around, some signs still say they are. If you are from Jacksonville you know what the Gator Bowl is, but if you from the ACC it can be confusing. Talleyrand had a lot of old signs as well.
Ocklawaha
August 10, 2008, 11:24:18 AMJTB, err, J. Turner Butler, uhh, SR 202, ahem, JT Butler, hick, Butler Blvd... Is in the same shape both on Phillips, 95 and EVERY OTHER sign. Can't we just settle for one name?
OCKLAWAHA
Ocklawaha
August 10, 2008, 11:26:53 AMThe Atlantic Coast Line Railroad, parent road of todays CSX, used a "Purple - Silver - Gold" color scheme, it was abandoned in the mid 1950's for Black - White and Yellow, as there was no way to keep the purple from fading. I would think that wouldn't be such a problem today, but guess there is just something about purple...
OCKLAWAHA
Charles Hunter
August 10, 2008, 02:08:15 PMOCKLAWAHA
Pssst ... Ock ... there's only one "L" in Philips ...
And was that "hick" a comment on our lack of urbanity?
Ocklawaha
August 10, 2008, 02:37:55 PMHA! HA! one too many SOCO's POWER LUNCHIE...
OCKLAWAHA
alta
August 11, 2008, 01:33:25 AMWow! This should be an easy for the problem for the city to correct. I guess they are stumbling over all the layers of beaucracy. I moved downtown in June. I recently parked at 1:30 p.m. to grab some wings and pizza from a local restraurant on Julia St. I went into the restaurant to get change. I had to wait behind two customers to get change. I had to wait 3-5 minutes max. I received a parking ticket. So for the Wednesday Art Walk to avoid parkng I decided to ride my bike and park it at Hemming Plaza. It was stolen I originally paid $1,000 for the bike in 2001 and never locked it when shopping in Baymeadows. It's probably only worth several hundred dollars now. While filing the police report several drunk homeless guys approached the cop yelling. He was professional and politely told them to move on. I've heard quite a few people on this blog complain about St. Johns Town Center.
alta
August 11, 2008, 01:49:29 AMI think SJTC is a plus for the Jacksonville metro area even if it doesn't directly benefit the downtown core currently
tufsu1
August 11, 2008, 08:15:34 AMI've parked in front of the same pizza place many times between 5:30 and 6:00pm....and have yet to get a ticket!