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While we value quality mass transit just as much as JTA, the difference in how transit is eventually arranged comes from opposing points of views of transit. For example, JTA's primary goal is to efficiently move vehicles the shortest distance between points A and B. How transit impacts its surroundings comes secondary in nature to them. Metro Jacksonville's outlook puts neighborhoods first with transit being an accessory to help create a better urban community.
What is Urban Commuter Rail?
"Urban Commuter Rail" is a term that has been recently coined by Capital Metro in Austin, TX. Like traditional commuter rail, trains operate on existing freight rail tracks. However, unlike traditional commuter rail, which can have stations as spread out as much as five miles apart, service is provided for both suburban and central city passengers with the use of self-propelled diesel multiple unit (DMU) railcars.
Why integrate rail into JTA's BRT plan?
Rail is generally known as the superior choice in transit technology in attracting ridership. However, most assume that because its superior it has to cost more. Nevertheless, communities like Trenton, San Diego, Ottawa and Austin have shown that its possible to create comfortable and efficient passenger rail systems at a price far more affordable than building dedicated busways. If you have the opportunity to incorporate rail into your future transportation network at an affordable price, you have to open the door when opportunity comes knocking. For Jacksonville, that time is now.
Three out of four JTA planned dedicated busway corridors (shown in red) parallel existing rail corridors (CSX - green, FEC - blue & City of Jacksonville - yellow). The Metro Jacksonville plan focuses on using existing rail, where possible, meaning the same corridors will still be served, but the planned transit mode would be upgraded (to rail), as opposed to spending hundreds of millions more to build an inferior product (BRT), parallel to tracks that already exist.
Rail opponents commonly claim that Jacksonville does not have the density to support any type of rail based system. However, the US Census Bureau doesn't support this claim. Our urban area happens to be larger and denser than several cities already enjoying rail, including Charlotte, Nashville, Memphis, Salt Lake City, Little Rock and Albuquerque. This graphic illustration also shows that the rail corridors mentioned by Metro Jacksonville happen to run right through the densest areas of our community.
link to US Bureau statistics:
http://www.census.gov/population/www/estimates/CBSA-est2006-annual.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_urban_areas_of_the_United_States
The components: Downtown
The Metro Jacksonville plan would relocate buses from the downtown core, having them run down State & Union out towards Regency Mall, as opposed to Adams, Forsyth or Bay Streets. This move would preserve the recent redevelopment of the downtown core into an urban district filled with restaurants, lofts, bars, outdoor public plazas and sidewalk cafes.
To get around the core and promote stronger economic redevelopment and dense infill, a 4 mile streetcar system would complement the Skyway and connect downtown with Springfield, the Sports District, Brooklyn and Five Points. Transit riders looking for a way to get to the suburbs would have that option by transferring from the streetcar or skyway to urban commuter rail lines at the proposed Jacksonville Transportation Center (the old Jacksonville Terminal).
**route maps are conceptual and are posted to promote discussion. A finalized layout would have to based off a feasibility study.**
The components: The S-Line
The S-Line presents a unique opportunity that has nothing to do with CSX or FEC. It is a former 5 mile rail corridor ALREADY owned by the City of Jacksonville stretching through some of Jacksonville's densest neighborhoods. Just by integrating the S-Line into the mass transit plan, you instantly connect Edward Waters College, Swisher International, Gateway Mall and Shands Jacksonville as destinations.
The city owned S-Line corridor runs from downtown (JTC) to Gateway Mall, roughly the same length as the planned North BRT corridor. It also connects with the CSX "S" line, which travels north to serve the port, Fernandina Beach, and St. Mary's, GA. In order to connect the city owned corridor with JIA, additional track would most like have to be laid between Panama Park and I-295.
Because the Northside grew up around the S-Line, today its littered with blighted commercial and industrial properties. By using cities like Portland (shown above), as an example, we have the opportunity to bring economic development back to the northside's forgotten commercial districts by connecting with the rest of the city, via affordable rail.
With the connection, we then have the opportunity to take advantage of disconnected older walkable districts of town, such as New Springfield, to create positive affordable infill development helping to restore property values in those areas and help solve additional issues we deal with like affordable housing, reducing crime, and blight.
This is a present day image of S-Line right-of-way in Springfield's decaying warehouse district. Because of modern technology, many of the older brick warehouses are not conductive to be used as industrial space, creating the opportunity for loft conversions, art galleries and additional uses.
By taking advantage of what we already have (the right-of-way), we can create a new front door to older districts like this, spreading economic redevelopment into areas that have been on a continuous decline since the mid 20th century.
The Components: CSX "A" (light green) and FEC (dark green) lines
CSX "A" Line (light green)
The CSX "A" line is currently a major freight rail corridor running from Downtown, parallel to Roosevelt Blvd, down to Central Florida. This is the same line that the State has agreed to purchase 61 miles of track in the Orlando area for commuter rail. As a part of the Orlando deal, CSX will relocate a major portion of the existing freight traffic over to the CSX "S" Line through Baldwin. This means there will be extra capacity created that could accommodate passenger rail on those tracks.
JTA's BRT plan proposes buying resident's homes and businesses, as well as CSX property, to construct a dedicated busway paralleling this rail line. Instead of duplicating what's already there, Metro Jacksonville's vision is to see our community take advantage of the Orlando deal to provide a rail link from Downtown to Orange Park, serving as an alternative to the busway in the Westside.
The CSX "A" Line travels through dense pedestrian friendly communities like Riverside, North Riverside and Murray Hill. Sections of this corridor is also lined with obsolete industrial properties.
By using this corridor for passenger rail, areas such as King Street, could be redeveloped with dense transit oriented development allowing redevelopment of North Riverside and strengthening the Park & King corridor with major destinations (St. Vincent's Medical Center and a rail-based TOD) at each end.
To make room for a dedicated busway, Murray Hill's "First Block" (Edgewood Avenue) could either be partially demolished or see an elevated busway crossing become its gateway. Also, despite the intrusion of the bus superhighway into the historic districts of Riverside/Avondale and Murray Hill, there are no plans by JTA to provide a stop for this revitalizing pedestrian friendly commercial district.
Under the Metro Jacksonville plan, using existing rail would allow for a transit stop for a superior system to be provided without taking homes and businesses in this historic district.
The Components: FEC (dark green)
Under the Metro Jacksonville plan, the SE BRT corridor would be replaced with rail-based transit being provided along the FEC corridor. Because the FEC line does not have the additional capacity for passenger rail on existing tracks, a new track would have to be laid along the corridor. While, this option would be more expensive than the S-Line or CSX "A" and take longer to work out an agreement, it would still be cheaper then building a dedicated busway in areas where people are not willing to walk to use mass transit.
JTA's planned SE BRT corridor parallels I-95 before terminating, in the year 2025, at Baymeadows Road. On the other hand, by attempting to take advantage of the FEC corridor, transit riders could have direct front door access to both Avenues Mall and Avenue's Walk.
While the Metro Jacksonville plan only throughly evaluates Duval County, using existing rail does present some interesting opportunities for regionalized mass transit. For example, if St. Johns County comes on board, a rail connection between Downtown and St. Augustine could become a reality. By connecting two major local airports, three major shopping centers, a hospital, you now have a rail line that not only appeals to local residents, but tourists as well.
Overall Vision:
Despite what many may think, Metro Jacksonville does believe in the concept of bus rapid transit. It should serve as express neighborhood bus lines that feed transit riders into the rail trunk line. By taking advantage of what we already have and taking note of what other communities are successfully pulling off, adding rail to our mass transit mix appears to be more affordable and complementing with our community than constructing dedicated busways.
To voice your concerns to the city council, feel free to send them a quick email on your position, regarding BRT and integrating affordable rail into the mix:
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jbm32206
December 10, 2007, 08:47:10 AMThese are shots of the New Jersey Riverline....which is a wonderful service with connections to bus and other rail services.
Jacksonville needs to wake up and smell the need for light rail service!
thelakelander
December 10, 2007, 09:29:19 AMGreat shots, Jbm32206!
One thing this article didn't get into was pricing and why do we think urban commuter rail is a form of rail that will cost millions of dollars less than building dedicated busways.
1. As shown above, DMUs railcars can run on existing tracks. meaning you don't have to build new road or rail network.
2. Many cities across the country are already going this route, giving us examples to learn from. Austin, currently has a 32 mile/9 station line under construction right now that costs $112 million. That adds up $3.5 million/mile.
A string of TODs are already going up around Austin's urban commuter rail line, which won't open until next year.
3. Austin, San Diego (The Sprinter), Ottawa (O-Train), Nashville (Music City Start), New Mexico (Rail Runner), etc. are recently completed rail systems built at insanely low prices. The common tread is that to get rail up and running, they are being built without the historical bells and whistles. Stations are simple at-grade platforms (see Jbm's images above), lines don't have to be immediately electrified and they aren't completely double tracked routes. Instead, they only have occassional passing slidings.
Ottawa O-Train
4. JTA's own RTS Technology Assessment Report clearly states that the cost of such a rail system is hundreds of millions cheaper than dedicated busways, despite them refusing to admit it at public meetings.
JTA's consultants definately were not familiar with DMUs (Regio Sprinters in their document) in 2001, which lead to them eliminating this technology early on in the process. Well its nearly seven years later an now there are several examples of this system in America. If it's cheaper and more attractive to riders and TOD developers, JTA owes it to this community to re-evaluate this option for certain BRT corridors, instead of burning nearly a billion for a system of bus superhighways with a "one size fits all" mentality. As a forumer stated a few days ago, to not do so is basically criminal negligence.
NJ to JAX WHAT DID I DO?
December 10, 2007, 09:38:13 AMLets do rail! I hope this plan bears fruit!!
urbancouple
December 10, 2007, 10:02:58 AMreally impressive job putting together this argument/presentation.
so from a practical standpoint, what can those of us who wholeheartedly support the rail plan do to help push this forward and eliminate the bus option (petitions, ads drumming up support, donations to lobbyists, calls to public officials, etc).
this may have been covered in previous postings, but I think that if the general public were fully aware (certainly those who reside or have invested in downtown), a push would be made in this direction.
would love to help, just need to know how
jbm32206
December 10, 2007, 11:06:22 AMI've said this before, it amazes me that JTA just doesn't get it....the light rail system in the way to go...and of course, the bus connections from there. It's well worth the investment, and if they'd use some common sense (and I know I'm stretching here) they'd find that a great many people would use it...when you make it relatively convenient. We're so far behind, it's shameful!
9a is my backyard
December 10, 2007, 12:52:01 PMI've been reading the articles on this site for a little over a year now, and I've always found them to be insightful and packed with good ideas. However, this article takes the ideas and plans laid out in pieces across a number of smaller articles and put it all together into one incredibly persuasive piece. I know a lot of these feelings have been expressed before, but I really hope this article will finally generate some discussion on the issue of mass transit in Jacksonville. If JTA feels that their BRT plan is truly the better alternative, that's fine, but they damn well better show the public the logic and rationale behind that decision.
Urbancouple, I feel the same way. This site has done a great job of bringing people together and getting people talking about the issue, but it seems like we're all pretty like minded here. I'd love to start winning over the 'hearts and minds' of those who don't know of the ongoing BRT vs. rail struggle, and even more importantly, those who feel the BRT is the better option. I've posed the question before and was told the best thing to do would be to write to the people in charge (city council, JTA, etc.). I'd like to do more, but it is encouraging to see articles about MetroJax in TU and such.
Ocklawaha
December 10, 2007, 01:32:51 PMYes! Funny thing is, many if not MOST of the JTA consultants have told me privately that they agree with my argument on Light Rail or Commuter Rail. There is a way out.
Inside the Hatachi Brand, "Skyway" monorail car and you thought they were all tiny?
Skyway: Not a spade of dirt should be turned on BRT until the Skyway is completed in the downtown core. The Stadium, Riverside and San Marco (OVER THE FEC RAILROAD) are begging for transit. We have it, you told us it was the solution, now it's time to put your plan into it's final phase. Expand the Skyway, isn't just for tiny two car horizontal elevators either, Hatachi builds a complete transportation system with WALK-THROUGH cars that will work on our current Skyway track. Passenger loads of 10,000 to 20,000 per hour are possible. Had we done our homework, our Stadium and Super Bowl would be remembered for more then just another cool game. It would be known around the World as "Hey, remember that stadium with that space-age monorail system?" You bet it would.
Arlington Expressway BRT Line: Expand it (yes JTA you heard me) Expand it to the beaches. Use a combination of HOV, added traffic lanes on Arlington Expressway, and service roads with dedicated busways. This will avoid the extra cost of elevated busway OVER the expressway, and negate the major many acre "socialized TOD" bus stops. Scale down the build and scale up the length and services offered.
Northside: Get onboard LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT, be it the Austin Model, Salt Lake City or Orlando's Colorado Railcar. Get the former "S" line relaid. DON'T pull up the new sidewalk-trail, simply add a few inches of concrete or asphalt, track and ballast and you have created first class "SLAB TRACK", which is largely weed free. Build your Gateway Mall center at the Railroad Crossing, and another transfer facility at the Airport/River City Marketplace connection, and Shands at 8Th Street.
For BRT, don't scrap it here either, simply shift it to the major corridors that reach into the heart of the largest group of transit riders in the City. Move BRT into MLK, New Kings, Lem Turner and Moncrief. Explore remote BRT trunks such as Edgewood from Northwest to Murray Hill. ALL of these could use the same combination of turn-outs, signal priority, real time information, updated buses, as well as HOV or some special lanes.
Southwest Jacksonville: Give up the BRT over the CSX, this is duplication at it's worst. We don't need a new freeway over the top of the railroad, then have you tell us, when the volume reaches a certain point we'll build rail! Get real. No one believes you are going to lay railroad over the top of a railroad. No one believes you will tear down a 5 or 10 year old Bus Freeway. No one believes the BRT will carry the volume of the railroad. No one wants the damn busway! Get it? The railroad is already there, soon to be empty, and gift wrapped for our use.
For BRT, simply add BRT at the major connecting points, using the same economic building style as I've already outlined. JTA, you would become the model for the World, Peyton, Blaylock and god knows even old Jake himself, would walk away with international acclaim.
We have been told the FEC won't run passenger trains... NOT!
Southside: Same as above, no one beleves in a busway next to or over the FEC, it's duplication, it's silly, we already have not only a railroad, but one which my own talks have show WILL PLAY BALL. We just have to get this act together. Do rail and use the savings to expand the BRT onto many arterial streets, some in rush hours, some with HOV, some with exclusive lanes or segments.
DOWNTOWN: Here is where I'd like to see some creative thought, I'll post a few photos of "OFF THE SHELF" new vehicles. Let's drive the "Potato chip trucks-playing-trolley" to some place like Silver Springs, or St. Augustine and unload them for a dime. Then let's invest in some transit that will REALLY make us want to ride. Why? Because this isn't fake, this is the real McCoy and passengers do know the difference. Need the name and address of the builders? Just ask me. BRAND NEW!
Either could be ordered as Electric too!
My Challenge?Mayor Peyton, I'm a retired railroad historian-planner, I'll work for principal alone. Give this a shot and you will leave a legacy transit system, people will talk about for years. All of the above, for 1/2 of what JTA plans to spend on another bus. I can't speak for the others on the forum, but if they'll come onboard, we can turn this city on it's concrete head.
Ocklawaha
jeh1980
December 10, 2007, 10:03:28 PMI'm not against JTA by any means. But if the BRT is really that bad as we all say, then I would rather see JTA expand the skyway system.
archiphreak
December 11, 2007, 09:47:11 AMOK. So, we all agree that Rail is much more efficient, cost effective and aesthetically pleasing than BRT. We've all seen the data over and over ad nauseum. Why has there not been a more aggressive and public campaign to thrust this issue into the faces of every citizen in Jacksonville? Is it lack of resources? Time? Commitment? Every single one of us on the MetJax boards is in full and unanimous agreement that BRT is a S$%t idea. Yippee for us. Now let's take it to the next step before our fearful leaders can sneak this one past the voters like they do with everything else. Obviously all of the studies in the world don't mean squat to City Coucil. So, hit them where it hurts. If they know that there is no way in hell they'll get re-elected if this thing goes through and that no one in the entire city actually approves of this, then perceptions can change. One article every six months in the TU isn't going to cut it. All of us on this message board stroking our own egos about how much better Rail is than BRT is going to do it either. Much more aggressive tactics are required and they're required NOW.
My own two cents.
urbancouple
December 11, 2007, 01:24:16 PMi posted earlier but no one responded. my original post was echoed above by archiphreak.
we're convinced by your argument and think others will be as well. there are many downtown residents and business owners who will benefit financially from such a plan succeeding and many would likely be willing to contribute (financially or with their time) to see this thing come to fruition.
so my question now is: what can we do to help you out? (money, attend meetings, write our city officials, petitions, raise or donate money for ads/articles in the mainstream press). i for one have significant financial interests in urban core and am willing to what i can (i just need to know in what way i can contribute to a larger, well coordinated effort)
thanks
u.c.
archiphreak
December 11, 2007, 01:49:50 PMFor me, I think the first step is to get as many people as we can to write in to the mayor and our council members and let them know how bad of an idea we think this is. And if one letter doesn't do the job, then we send one letter each week until a response is made. If that doesn't get the desired result, then we take it one step further and cram this issue into the faces of every news outlet in the city. Whether it be advertising or publishing of articles, it doesn't matter. This is an issue that is going to have far reaching consequences for the future of our city and it needs to be dealt with now, not later. While all of this is going on, I think there should be a collaborative effort of Architects, Designers, Engineers and the such to put together not just graphs and figures showing how this Rail system will work, but a real concrete set of documents outlining what this system is and how it will work from an architectural and engineering stand point.
I'm sorry if I sound like I'm on my soap box over here. But transportation is not an issue that affects one or two societal groups. It affects everyone in this city indiscriminately.
thelakelander
December 11, 2007, 02:37:16 PMwe're convinced by your argument and think others will be as well. there are many downtown residents and business owners who will benefit financially from such a plan succeeding and many would likely be willing to contribute (financially or with their time) to see this thing come to fruition.
so my question now is: what can we do to help you out? (money, attend meetings, write our city officials, petitions, raise or donate money for ads/articles in the mainstream press). i for one have significant financial interests in urban core and am willing to what i can (i just need to know in what way i can contribute to a larger, well coordinated effort)
thanks
u.c.
This is going to be a long fight. The best thing at this point is to email the city council, Mayor's Office and JTA on a regular basis about this issue. Also, spread the word to as many of your neighbors and co-workers as possible and attempt to have them contact the "mentioned above" as well, even if its just a one liner.
In the meantime, the guys at Metro Jacksonville are continuing to meet with council members, the mayor's office and neighborhood groups to help spread insight on why BRT is that bad thing that can be avoided and converted into something that benefits the entire community.
As time goes on a strong coalition will be formed between us and several entities and residents who are ready to tell JTA where they can take this plan and solve it.
thelakelander
December 11, 2007, 02:39:20 PMI'm sorry if I sound like I'm on my soap box over here. But transportation is not an issue that affects one or two societal groups. It affects everyone in this city indiscriminately.
I like this idea. The couple of us that have been working on this so far behind the scenes, can't do it all alone. Maybe there should be a meeting with Metro Jacksonville, Emerging Architects and anyone who wants to be involved to discuss how we can pull off such an effort?
archiphreak
December 12, 2007, 09:21:37 AMLakelander, that sounds like a great idea. I've broached the subject before and I know of at least 2 or 3 members who would jump at an opportunity like this. I'll bring it up at the January meeting and see if I can't get some more support from other members. Like I said, transportation is an important issue that effects everyone in our city. We definitely need to push this into their face as often as possible. I'll me writing the Mayor and my council rep today to try and get their attention. Keep me posted on your goings on with city council and the like.
02roadking
December 13, 2007, 12:31:16 PMHmmm, let's rethink this for a minute.....
From the Jaxdailyrecord.com:
The idea of parades of buses zooming through busy intersections on Downtown’s pedestrian streets like Bay and Adams has spurred concern from many over JTA’s Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) system.
However, JTA has apparently cooled off from its original plans for the BRT system, at least through parts of Downtown, and is asking for input from two key groups – Downtown Vision Inc. (DVI) and the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission (JEDC).
Full story:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=49029
Ocklawaha
December 13, 2007, 12:41:17 PMThis should be a warning to us, not an encouragement. Read it: "JTA is going to turn up the heat and lobby to get their way downtown!"
Ocklawaha
thelakelander
December 13, 2007, 12:59:52 PMHopefully the JEDC and DVI won't get tricked into thinking that BRT will work on Bay, Adams or Forsyth with slight modifications from what has been shown by JTA so far. Running the buses down State & Union in mixed traffic is the way to go. The Skyway and trolley bus systems can be used to provide service to downtown transit riders via the existing FCCJ bus terminal.
Also, that graphic of Adams Street is wrong. Adams has parallel parking on both sides of the street. JTA's graphic illustrates that it does not have parallel parking on the south side of the street, where bus lanes would run.
thelakelander
December 13, 2007, 01:01:18 PMOcklawaha
Then we need to turn up the heat and lobby DVI and JEDC. We have access to transit information they don't know and don't have time to search for on their own. We should supply them with information they need to not get ran over by transit planners.
RiversideGator
December 13, 2007, 02:05:10 PMThe trouble is JTA is run by a bunch of pig headed morons. You just have to keep hitting them vigorously in the head to get their attention. If the downtown groups can be persuaded to strongly oppose this BRT route through downtown (read impending disaster) then the City Council and Mayor's Office may take notice and JTA may move the route elsewhere. I am afraid though that a State and Union Street route for BRT tying into the skyway station there is far too logical for JTA's nonlinear thinking.
Ocklawaha
December 13, 2007, 07:59:59 PMLake, River, and others, we should schedule a meeting/presentation with JCCI and DVI ASAP. Let's get inside their heads and teach them how this cow eats his cabbage...
Ocklawaha