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Taking a look at Cecil Field

We're not going to tell you which way to vote or take an official position, but we will present you with visual information that hasn't been fully covered by the local media, Better Westside and Vote Jacksonville.

Published November 2, 2006 in News      22 Comments    Open printer friendly version of this article Print Article


CECIL FIELD / WEST SIDE PHOTO TOUR

The numbers shown on this recent Cecil Field aerial, show the exact location of the next 19 pictures.

1. Normandy Blvd, traveling towards Cecil, just west of Chaffee Road.

2. 103rd Street, heading east, towards Chaffee Road and directly north of the airport runways.

CECIL FIELD (EXISTING COMMERCE CENTER OPERATED BY JAA)

3. The recent reconstruction of Aviation Avenue is one of several infrastructure improvements made in the commerce center area. The city has spent roughly $200 million at and around Cecil, since the Navy finally left in 1999.

4. Flightstar Aircraft Services, the commerce center’s largest employer with over 400 employees, relocated from JIA to Cecil in 2005.

5. LSI (Logistic Services International) is a military training solutions company that is organized to support training courseware development and technical data support specifically for the aerospace industry and the U.S. Department of Defense.

6. Boeing's Aerospace Support Center at Cecil. Boeing recently announced plans to lay off up to 60 of the facility's 220 workers, due to work on the Navy's E-6 contract scheduled to be completed by the end of the year.

Also, in July 2006, the Mayor’s office announced that a joint venture, which includes Boeing, had selected Cecil as the site of its proposed military jet assembly plant, employing up to 200 workers, if they win the contract to build the C-27J Spartan plane. The winning bid is expected to be announced in 2007.

7. FCCJ’s Aviation Center of Excellence is housed in a 30,600sf hanger left over from the commerce center’s days as a major master jet base.

8. Northrop Grummanleases space out of this old naval warehouse building.

If the commerce center remains and is fully developed as originally planned, both commercial and military flight operations with increase.

9. Cecil Pines, a 92 unit senior home development, was created from left over base housing.

ARGYLE / OAKLEAF

10. A major concern, regarding the Navy’s return is residential encroachment.Through the years the city has giving approval to many residential developments that have the potential to hurt aviation oriented development at the base. This is a photo of a new tract home development currently being constructed within the airport’s current crash zones.

11. Excluding bridges at interchanges, the Branan-Field Chaffee Expressway has already been constructed between 103rd Street and Argyle Forest Blvd.The final segment between Argyle Forest and I-10 is funded and construction will begin in 2007.

12. Dawson’s Creek, still under development, is the closest residential project being constructed near the airport.The $300,000 homes here are pretty large and give you much more per square foot compared to similar sized homes in other areas of towns not located near airports.

This recent aerial shows the section of Dawson's Creek (left) closest to Cecil's east runways.

similar sized homes in other areas of towns not located near airports. Dawsons Creek is another example of the city approving incompatible residential uses within Cecil's current crash zones. To two developments shown here, have been allowed to proceed, despite the ongoing discussion now at hand.

13. The area around Cecil Field is still primarily rural, however poor planning has allowed for spot residential development. This is a photograph of the small country road leading up to the Dawson's Creek subdivision.

OAKLEAF PLANTATION

14. Oakleaf Plantation Parkway is the major road through the Oakleaf DRI.

15. The westside of the Oakleaf DRI is still heavily undeveloped. However, over the last year or two, several "Tinseltown / Gate Parkway" type condo developments and a few gated single family home subdivisions have sprouted up.

16. Another condo development off Oakleaf Plantation Parkway.

17. This Publix is located on the Duval County side of Oakleaf at Old Middleburg Road and Argyle Forest Parkway. The Oakleaf Town Center, a 850,000sf shopping center, anchored by a Super Target, is now under construction across the street.

18. The heavily developed section of Oakleaf Plantation, lies east of Chaffee Road in Clay County.

19. Oakleaf's homes range from cookie cutter starter ups to massive custombuilt homes.

CECIL COMMERCE CENTER

Much has been made about the large amount of land set aside for high skilled manufacturing jobs at the commerce center. However, the land plan for the industrial park shows, much of the property has been set aside for various uses leaving limited space formanufacturing areas (shown in purple) and mega plant sites for high skill, high wage manufacturing jobs. In a perfect world low wage warehouse facilities, such as the Walmart being courted by the JEDC would be directed to several private industrial parks, such as Westside, West Lake or Imeson. This would leave the best large scale spots at Cecil available for major projects that are to large to go anywhere else in town.

If you take a close look at the commerce center land use plan, a 5th runway is proposed between the existing airport and the westside, eventually pushing flights directly over developments like Oakleaf and Dawsons Creek. If anything needs to improve, its planning, between the Jacksonville and Clay Counties.

This recent AICUZ contour map, shown in the Florida Times Union,shows military high level noise zones extending as I-295. However, it differs significantly from the official military AICUZ map presented to the city and Oceana's flight patters. One reason for the difference could be because commerce center advocates attempted to estimate the sound impact of super hornets.

This is the official military AICUZ chart for Cecil Field.

NAS OCEANA AND VIRGINIA BEACH

Nearly a third of the city’s 439,467 residents now live in jet-noise zones that the Navy considers incompatible for housing developments. Many are inhomes where roaring Navy jets drown out TVs and disrupt backyard barbecues. Over the years, despite Navy protests, Virginia Beach has continued to allow incompatible residential development to move closer and closer to the NAS Oceana's runways.

NAS Oceana figures:

9,247 = Number of Active Duty Personnel Assigned

2,547 = Number of Civilians Employed

$773 million = Total Annual Payroll (equals out to an average of $65,542 per person)

19 = Number of Squadrons Assigned(8 Tomcat; 11 Hornet)

252 = Total Number of Aircraft Assigned

NAS Oceana Dam Neck Annex:

3,661 = Number of Active Duty Personnel Assigned

1,368 = Number of Civilians Employed

$344 million = Total Annual Payroll (equals out to an average of $68,403 per person)

www.vbgov.com/city_hall/hot_topics/0,1215,16833,00.html

www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/oceana.htm

LOCAL HIGH SKILLED COMPANIES DOING BUSINESS IN VIRGINIA BEACH BECAUSE OF OCEANA INCLUDE:

AMERICAN SYSTEMS ENGINEERING- 2300 employees

systems engineering services associated with command and control systems, sensor systems, intelligence and surveillance systems, telecommunications systems, combat and weapon systems, and other types of associated electronic, electromechanical, and mechanical platforms/systems.

MILCOM SYSTEMS CORPORATION - 800 employees

MILCOM Systems helps the military communicate. In addition to providing technical communications systems, it offers engineering, consulting, and information technology (IT) services, and helps to design and build air traffic control systems. The company also manufactures custom-made computer workstations and metal furniture at its fabrication facility in Chesapeake, Virginia.

AMSEC LLC

AMSEC is a limited liability company jointly owned by Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) and Northrop Grumman. With 4,600 employees nationwide and overseas, AMSEC LLC is a full service supplier to the Navy and commercial maritime industry, providing naval architecture and marine engineering, combat and electronic systems engineering, naval ship systems assessments, maintenance engineering, acquisition program development, shipyard industrial engineering, and complete logistics services from technical manual development to provisioning documents, to spare parts management and training.

DCS – 500 employees

DCS is a local Defense contractor

VIRGINIA BEACH / NAS OCEANA AERIALS

For comparisons sake, here is a recent aerial of Cecil Field. NAS Oceana is shown at the same scale below.

This close up aerial illustrates the degree of residential encroachment at Oceana. People live basically right next door to the master jet base's four runways.

The Lynnhaven Mall, which opened in 1976 despite Navy protests, is a prime example of encroaching development near Oceana. According to Virginia Beach media outlets, Oceana jets have to bank into a hard 180-degree turn around the mall as they head for downwind landings at the jet base.

Nevertheless, business continues to boom at the shopping center. With a Macy's, Dillards, JCPenney, Barnes & Noble, and Dick's Sporting Goods as anchors, the center is home to 180 stores, 16 restaurants (including Johnny Rockets, Pizzeria UNO Chicago Grill & Carrabba's)andan 18-screen AMC theater. Its one of the largest shopping centers in the state of Virginia.

www.lynnhavenmall.com

The mall can be clearly seen in this aerial, just west of NAS Oceana.

Good luck at the polls. Regardless of what position you take on this important issue, be sure to know whats on the table by fully researching the issue and weeding through all the propaganda flying around and on the TV screens.








22 Comments

JJ

November 03, 2006, 08:16:10 AM
Well done. I'm voting "no".

Wolf Leonard

December 02, 2006, 08:15:38 AM
Nicely done.  I hope you leave this site up.  Let me know if not, and I'll gladly host it.

MattnJax

November 19, 2008, 06:06:44 PM
Here's an older article I found dealing with Cecil Commerce Center and the possible return of the master jet base being we were discussing it in another article about Mayport getting another carrier. I find this little nugget about Oceana Master Jet Base in Virginia Beach interesting.

"Nearly a third of the city’s 439,467 residents now live in jet-noise zones that the Navy considers incompatible for housing developments"

I have a feeling Jacksonville, and especially people living around Cecil, might regret not allowing a naval master jet base, and the 30,000 people involved with it, back. Especially if the economy continues to worsen. Those local jobs and dollars are pretty much guarenteed and would have tremendously helped our local economy in these tough times. 

civil42806

November 20, 2008, 05:54:48 AM
Here's an older article I found dealing with Cecil Commerce Center and the possible return of the master jet base being we were discussing it in another article about Mayport getting another carrier. I find this little nugget about Oceana Master Jet Base in Virginia Beach interesting.

"Nearly a third of the city’s 439,467 residents now live in jet-noise zones that the Navy considers incompatible for housing developments"

I have a feeling Jacksonville, and especially people living around Cecil, might regret not allowing a naval master jet base, and the 30,000 people involved with it, back. Especially if the economy continues to worsen. Those local jobs and dollars are pretty much guarenteed and would have tremendously helped our local economy in these tough times. 


Boy do I disagree with this statement.  I have a home on the westside and I bought my a father in law a home closer to cecil than I am, so I guess I have a vested interest.  The closing of Cecil Field was a MAJOR error by the DOD, prior to closing the field they did have empty hangars, but there was almost no encrochment by development. In fact I can remember some very vigourous arguments between the city council and groups that wanted to build in the crash zones.  The city council was always supportive of the Navy.  But by the time the vote came around that had all changed. The base had been dismantled, there was nothing there other than the hangars, which by the way had been upgraded by private money.  All the supporting structure had been destroyed, the enlisted housing was demolished, no commisary, no hospital.  My objection was since we had a major dod drawdown, there had to be a better base to locate too.  Payton improper proposal as to how much development had grown around cecil implied a intent to decieve, that helped the westside to organize an effective group to oppose the reopening.  There will be no UPS or FEDEX hub at cecil, but there could be an effective overhaul refit and manufacture facility there that will draw no objections to the locals.  We aren't talking about 14 squadorns of f-18e/f's operating 18 hours a day.  Anyone that worked at the old Cecil field can attest how noisy 7 to 9 in the morning was

thelakelander

November 20, 2008, 07:24:47 AM
How do we know that there will never be a chance for an air freight hub at Cecil?  Given our location, projected port growth and the fact that it does have 12,000ft runways, it could be a possibility at some point in the future.

CMG22

November 20, 2008, 02:16:49 PM
I work at Cecil.  They're looking at major development in the coming years.

Check out:

http://www.jaa.aero/AirSys/CF.aspx both the Master Plan and the Development Plan;

and, for more on the latter, visit,

http://www.cecilcommerce.com/

heights unknown

November 21, 2008, 08:55:26 AM
I was stationed at NAS Cecil Field two or three times during my 20 year naval career.  I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding noise because back then, nobody complained about the noise...and don't tell me there is much more development out there now than there was in the 70's, 80's and 90's...there isn't that much more.

With the Navy sharing the land and wealth with the Commerce Center, many more jobs would be brought back to Jax in addition to increased development in and around the Commerce Center.  The noise would not be that bad, and there is not that much more increase in flight activity because of the Commerce Center and the Navy, in my opinion (from what I know and can see, there is not all that much jet/aircraft activity and noise at present that is comparable to what it was when the Navy was there).

Heights Unknown

civil42806

November 22, 2008, 12:02:09 PM
I was stationed at NAS Cecil Field two or three times during my 20 year naval career.  I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding noise because back then, nobody complained about the noise...and don't tell me there is much more development out there now than there was in the 70's, 80's and 90's...there isn't that much more.

With the Navy sharing the land and wealth with the Commerce Center, many more jobs would be brought back to Jax in addition to increased development in and around the Commerce Center.  The noise would not be that bad, and there is not that much more increase in flight activity because of the Commerce Center and the Navy, in my opinion (from what I know and can see, there is not all that much jet/aircraft activity and noise at present that is comparable to what it was when the Navy was there).

Heights Unknown

There is much more development that existed back in the 90's, you have the whole oakleaf plantation development, recommend you take  a drive out that way an check it out.  Plus you have to count in that it would not be the older F-18 a/b/c/d, but the new F-18 E/F which is similar to the F-14, big loud and powerful aircraft,

thelakelander

November 22, 2008, 12:38:17 PM
I can't help but wonder what could have been if we had worked as a community to find a viable solution instead of both sides drawing their line in the sand and fighting two years ago.  The influx of economic activity from the high number of jobs that would have been a great benefit.

Quote
Unemployment went up in nearly every sector in Jacksonville.

By Mark Basch, The Times-Union

Jacksonville's unemployment rate rose in October, with just about every sector of the local economy recording job losses over the past year.
 
The unemployment rate in the Jacksonville metropolitan area - consisting of Duval, Baker, Clay, Nassau and St. Johns counties - rose from 6.4 percent in September to 6.6 percent last month, the Florida Agency for Workforce Innovation reported Friday.

The state labor agency also said that Jacksonville area employers have cut their payrolls by a net total of 9,300 jobs between October 2007 and October 2008, a 1.5 percent decline.

University of North Florida economist Paul Mason said the higher unemployment rate, along with other recent negative indicators, signals continued weakness.

"There's nothing at this point to suggest that it's going to reverse itself," he said.
full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/112208/bus_358661945.shtml
 
Quote
Manufacturing jobs take a hit in Northeast Florida



By David Bauerlein, The Times-Union

The economic downturn is hitting the factory floor in Northeast Florida.

In the past month, five manufacturing companies have announced layoffs affecting 639 workers. The latest notice came this week from United States Gypsum for its Jacksonville plant.
full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/112208/bus_358661957.shtml

reednavy

November 22, 2008, 01:42:28 PM
How about we just launch new space shuttles from Cecil Field just to piss off everyone. Sounds good to me, at least it'd draw tourists.

CMG22

November 22, 2008, 05:35:12 PM
People still do complain about the noise--a lot. I take their phone calls.  Engine work is done at Cecil, and you have 727 and 757s doing engine run-ups.  F-18s do so as well.  They are very loud, and audible for miles.  Development around Cecil was allowed to grow FAR too close to the airport.  They have built $300k homes well within the land underlying the traffic pattern of aircraft (not just the approach paths).  Then they call about airplanes, and think they can dictate how airplanes fly.  The sad part is that ATC does their best to keep them away from residences.

The houses are not visible, but the road is.  Check it out:  http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=300+Dawsons+Creek+Dr&sll=30.207547,-81.851513&sspn=0.009494,0.021093&ie=UTF8&ll=30.216578,-81.867886&spn=0.037974,0.084372&t=h&z=14

urbanlibertarian

June 27, 2009, 07:37:54 PM
The post office at CCC will probably be closing this summer.  The retail and PO Box operations would be consolidated into another post office in the area, perhaps Murray Hill.  USPS is conducting a public discussion meeting July 7 6pm at the West Regional library on Chaffee Rd.

jandar

June 28, 2009, 10:30:36 AM
USPS is slowly working to eliminate every office they can to save money.

I live in Clay County, have to drive 8 miles to pick up registered/signed mail at the post office my mail comes out of. Yet there is a post office 3 miles from me that does not serve my area.

They make no sense at all.

Ocklawaha

June 28, 2009, 10:39:16 AM
Funny, when I was at the Postal Service, we had a nut case executive come in to talk to all employees. He made his presentation on "PUSH - PROTECT and SELL" our bulk mail services. "Bulk Mail, postage paid business mail is our lifeblood... It represents 75% of our volume and a solid 25% of our income!" NO KIDDING! I got in a bit of hot water when I blurted out, "Something is WRONG with your math!"

LOL!

Seems to me legal, signature and flat rate parcel services would be the salvation if they'd abandon the Hub and Spokes model, and the models that say an office is successful according to how much volume it generates daily. Never mind the customer, customer service, satisfaction, playing nice etc... just MOVE, MOVE, MOVE, the mountain.At the end of the year the Supervisor with the highest mountain wins!


OCKLAWAHA

riverside_mail

June 28, 2009, 11:04:47 AM
How long ago was this, Ock?

Nothing has changed over the years. It's still all about numbers, not service. The place is so top heavy with management and people who never touch the mail.

honestly, i enjoy my job, but the level of stupidity there appalls me sometimes.

Ocklawaha

June 28, 2009, 01:04:46 PM
Riverside_Mail, Hello BROTHER, best I recall it was about 1990, the guy was out of the Orlando MSC, and he came up to Lake Mary to "preach the new gospel..."

I finally went postal and they threw me out! Retired with check so I could go back railroading! HA! HA!


OCKLAWAHA

heights unknown

June 28, 2009, 06:34:08 PM
Funny, when I was at the Postal Service, we had a nut case executive come in to talk to all employees. He made his presentation on "PUSH - PROTECT and SELL" our bulk mail services. "Bulk Mail, postage paid business mail is our lifeblood... It represents 75% of our volume and a solid 25% of our income!" NO KIDDING! I got in a bit of hot water when I blurted out, "Something is WRONG with your math!"

LOL!

Seems to me legal, signature and flat rate parcel services would be the salvation if they'd abandon the Hub and Spokes model, and the models that say an office is successful according to how much volume it generates daily. Never mind the customer, customer service, satisfaction, playing nice etc... just MOVE, MOVE, MOVE, the mountain.At the end of the year the Supervisor with the highest mountain wins!


OCKLAWAHA

LOL Ock; What did he say when you blurted that out?  I had balls when I worked for the government but not balls that big or that long...and I was in the military (USN).

Tell me what he said or what was his reply Ock.

Heights Unknown

Ocklawaha

June 28, 2009, 08:32:15 PM
In my usual job killing, wise ass manner, best I remember it went something like this:

Whole room laughing...

Supervisor of Postal Operations (SPO)... "Do have a question for Mr. X?"

Me: "Not a question just an observation that this whole operation is charging off a blind cliff like a pack of Lemmings."

Mr. X, "We have worked out volume models, and ran many scenario's that prove this is our future, this is not some suddenly concocted back room solution to our revenue stream."

SPO: "I'm sure the three of us can discuss this AFTER the meeting and answer all of your questions (doubts)."

(Non Postal folks that think of the USPS as a laid back job full of "Newman" and "Cliff" don't have a clue that the USPS operates in a very military style. Legally protected from interference by the Constitution, a Postal Supervisor answers to NO ONE. There is NO legal representation for Postal Workers and a weak labor union for the rank and file. Boot Camp type antics on the part of supervisors are generally out of control, as is hazing and even violence. When someone has enough of it, the media jumps on him or her for "GOING POSTAL". The whole system needs a complete cleansing, as in if they gave the world an enema, where would they stick the hose?)

Others: The room by then was generally out of control, everyone talking out of turn, comments flying, complete disorder.

Post Master: "QUIET! Let's have some order here, Ocklawaha, you are excused..."

Me: "...and you wonder why this whole operation is going the way of the Pony Express, don't think, don't react, and lord knows don't worry about our customers, just move paper so it looks good when you want to advance to the next level (offices and jobs were rated in a numerical system, higher volume=higher pay, for example a supervisor in a level 13 office made much less then the same job in a level 23 office).

This rather set the tone for the next several years, until it nearly came to blows in front of 230 people. Quite the scene really... But hey, today, "Daddy just sends me a check..."


OCKLAWAHA

riverside_mail

June 28, 2009, 10:32:59 PM
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was......

Although instead of using the word military to describe USPS management style, I would substitute the word autocratic.

Ocklawaha

June 28, 2009, 11:39:02 PM
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was......

Although instead of using the word military to describe USPS management style, I would substitute the word autocratic.

Things must be nicer here in Jax. then they were in Central Florida or Oklahoma. When I think USPS my military description of the workplace would be more like:

"kempei-tai,” or "Ishii Unit 731" in fact, over my office door were the words "Arbeit Mahct frei", I figured correctly that none of these geniuses would have a clue what it ment. Actually about mid carieer I was caught and ordered to take it down, but the guy was gone in weeks and it went back up. But not before I had put up a new decoration...

Ελληνικά

Ο γάιδαρος είναι ο μετα κύριος - Greek, roughly "The Post Master is an Ass."

It could be worse, I could be looking for a job at YOUR company! Hee Hee!


OCKLAWAHA

Lunican

March 29, 2010, 10:15:34 AM
Happening now at Cecil Field...



At Cecil Field, a production company sets up to shoot a TV commercial in a 727 used by JAA Police Department and other law enforcement agencies to conduct training exercises.



Quiet on the set! Production crew and talent prepare to shoot a scene for a commercial inside a 727 used for training exercises at Cecil Field.

(If photos do not display, your network may be blocking facebook).

Coolyfett

October 28, 2010, 09:04:10 AM
When do the Spaceships come into play?
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